Nicky,
"But even if these animals were being sent on the QEII, it doesn't change what happens to them when they get there"

Thats the rub. If they don't receive Australian animals they'll process animals from other countries who may not have as stringent transportation guidelines. We can really only control welfare during transportation and now with MoU's the quarantine at the other end.
Animal welfare groups would be better rewarded by educating the processors over there, rather than stifling the trade from Australia. To my mind a sheep is a sheep no matter in which accent it baas.
The aim should be to the welfare of all animals, not just Australian ones.

Nicky, your QE2 comment kind of says it all. It doesent matter
what ship these sheep are on, you still would not be content.

I seem to recall one of your posts discussing your problem
with the blood and guts of slaughter being the problem,
it certainly is for many veggies.

However, what you are doing is basically being a nitpicking
armchair critic, rather then looking at the big picture.

Yes there have been incidents in the live trade. There have
also been incidents with motor cars killing people, with
747s and other planes crashing. So we look at the big
picture, we don't stop flying or drivng cars. We try to
find out where the problem is, try to rectify it and find
a solution.

At some point you have to question whether your emotional
buttons are simply being pushed and your response is nothing
more then a feelgood response, the outcome of which won't make
a scrap of difference. Fact is that people have been killing
animals for meat in the ME, by the millions, for thousands of
years. If you think that sending WA farmers broke might make
you feel better, great for you, but not very good for those
farmers and in reality it won't make a scrap of difference in
the ME.

I've told you before, there are options to change things in
the ME. They take notice of their religion. Signs posted in
every slaughter place, what the Koran says about being kind
to animals, would be a small, cheap effective thing that some
of the libber groups could do to make a real difference there.

They might even receive some funding from MLA for that kind
of project, if they tried. But no, it seems you'd rather
just send Aussie farmers broke, as you've offered to alternate
solutions for their lost income

Yabby Rojo Nicky Hello Everybody

Firstly Yabby

I am going off post and answering briefly from the other thread.
its clear you didnt read this.
http://www.afic.com.au/
You `keep saying` we wouldnt have a clue.

I dont mind a sensible debate with anybody - but at least READ what has `already been done.

The fact is we work cojointly with Muslim leaders. We have been meeting with overseas for years. We `totally` understand their requirements.
We know whats going on and why. Unlike yourself.

If you read some of the site you can see the enormous amount of work already done[ with MUCH MORE to be done]

Its a huge job and we could have done with a hand but the others refused.

The festivals are able to be serviced by local animals. Rodger supplies halal products. No reason others cant compete. NONE
http://www.minister.immi.gov.au/cam/media/media-releases/2006/jc06002.htm
Its clear you are either disinterested or just post the same rubbish over and over to ramble on. Possibly to upset some of the posters.

You ignore facts and quite frankly you dont even have the manners to repond to the contents of the others persons posts.

So whats the point to continue.

Go ahead send your two hundred sheep alive. I am not going to judge you. God can do that.

Rojo. Not even if they are wrapped in cotton wool on the best ships. Slaughter here, keep value adding and jobs here.

It common sense for our country.

Nicky we appluade your efforts and have often said so.

However we are also free to post our comments and points as we see them.
Animal Welfare are the most unfriendly organisations I have ever come in contact with.

That was entrenched WELL before we came along. Thats not the case at rSPCA QLD or PALE or AFIC- Just you lot.

FYI There were emails sent Australia wide to most groups warning not to deal with our organisation.

We are ALL working for for Animals. I suggest everybody drops the attitude. We respond as we are treated.

Other than that your comments are 100% correct.

Yabby and Rojo
Yabby, quite frankly, the incomes or otherwise of WA farmers is of absolutely no interest to me, but I would suggest that, as other busineses have to in changing environments, they should learn about diversification. But no, they've gone for short-term profits without thought for what they're going to do when this ends - as it will. It's a bit of a sad case, that these people have committed to these profits fully aware of how their animals are to be treated. You see, your arguments fail every time because this is about basic common decency, not economics, something WA (and other farmers) dispensed with when they got into this.
That said, I agree with you completely about signage in Middle Eastern slaughterhouses, although all the indications are that it is savages we are talking about here (wonder if they can read?). Since they profess to be so strict about their religion, they would know those requirements. BTW, how do you get away with sending them mulesed, castrated sheep without tails when their religion dictates otherwise? Perhaps they don't notice. Or perhaps they are as flexible with their religion as we have seen in recent film footage.
Rojo, the argument about Australia not sending animals to this butchery is about "raising the bar", the ideal being that if Australia (from where most are sourced) stopped providing animals on cruelty grounds it would a) send a salutory lesson that the Australian community does NOT condone the savage treatment of its animals (not only sheep), and b) SOME other countries might do the same.
Australia's Standards are really not that great, either, Rojo, the same crappy old ships are plying the trade (from which even the crews desert if you read Hansard), and the Standards only go as far as - you guessed it - the ship. If the report I have quoted above is correct (and it more likely to err on the side of the industry) the exporters cannot even conform to the Standards THEY developed for THEIR "industry".
Nicky

Nicky

Cant tell you what to write. After all that`s what we pointed out to you regarding us.

Unlike other groups we feel farmers need support instead of bagging them.

Also we had plans which we ' HAPPILY shared'.

Nobody was interested.

Then as sure as God made little green apples a few months later its 'copy cats'.

The legal action and 'much more.

God only knows 'now' plans to sell meat to ME?.

Thats best done by Muslim Leaders. BUT like we asked years ago we need help to contact Australian Farmers. Yes Please!

Interesting considering we started this programme and begged them to join us but they refused.

I am extremely interested by the head 'people requesting this funding.

I might add Dr Hugh Wirth failed to even reply after four years of invitations to meet with Muslim leaders? Instead our membership to WSPA was blocked. umm

Thats fine! Nicky except `some things` should NOT have been coppied.

Such as the investigation and Court Case.

I recall the lady arguing with me that we couldnt get live Exports into court.
So I put a Federal Police friend on the phone who explained our intentions.

Which was a major Federal Case.

Nope.

Not interested! in a NCA investigation with Federal Police and leading Australian QCs `No Way`.

Ok well I PRAY they succeed at State level.

Lyn White is fantsatic but she cant make up for others egos .

Nicky 'savages'?

Yeh sure that will work. Now every Aussie farmers off side lets piss off the Muslim people as well.

It may pay you to remember the Muslim Leaders of Australia are the ONLY ones trying to make a difference.

I dont see any Good Christian leaders doing likewise do you?

I told AA years ago if they put out adds with the Koran it will help.

If they realize its not Halal they WONT eat it.

I noticed an add from PETA for Tassi. Pity they had the best.

No Nicky WE are the Savages because AUSTRALIA sends them there.

SHAME ON THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT

"although all the indications are that it is savages we are talking about here (wonder if they can read?)."

Your attitude seems to be showing more clearly, bit by bit here Nicky!

Middle East savages, farmers apparently driven by nothing but profit, eating
meat will kill you, even the QE2 would not be acceptable as a
sheep transporter etc. etc.

You want the live trade banned because sheeps legs are tied and
their throats cut, as happens commonly in Australia.

Hey you are free to follow your extremist philosophies, just not
free to force them on the rest of us. Luckily society just
tolerates extremist groups, but takes little notice of them,
despite their loud howling