24th of april is the day the judge hands down his findings on EMANEL EXPORTS WA for major animal cruelty

Many people may be aware of the court case In Western Australia Instigated by people who care about Animals.
We have had so many enquires from members of the public asking about this matter that we thought it might be helpful to let everybody know the date.

Animals Australia brought about these charges and we take our hats off to them'

Many people are under the false impreshion that Animal Welfare Groups are from another world.

I can assure you that they are simply members of the Australian Public who choose to join something to better life for animals.

Just the same as some people like to join a football club.
Actually we have a few people that do both.
So if you would like to help as a member of the public please write letters direct to Ministers and those involved in the trade.

We encourage the public to contact their local Ministers Peter Mcgaurans and John Howard as well as the people direct and tell them how you feel about this Industry.

You can write to people involved in this trade direct here>


Johnathon & Kathy Emanuel
23 Grange St
Claremont
08 92842068
0419808059
Lanstal Park PTY LTD
Patterson Road
Pinjarra WA

Rupert Emanuel
7B Ormsby Terrace
Mandurah
0417931527
&
Lot 50 Atkins Road
North Dandalup
08 95301737

Michael DeVantier Manager
08 95253995
Atkins Road
North Dandalup WA

Emanuel Brothers P/L Johnathon Emanuel Manager Director
56 Kings Park Road
West Perth

08 93226174
08 93226566
0419906889

Tim & Sally Emanuel
Daniels Road
Esperance
08 90750081
&
Talindert Station
Camperdown Vic
03 55931004

Please click here To See more People involved in this trade and take a few minutes to write to them.
Thank you
http://www.livexports.com/contacts.html

I thought it may assist the public to give you some idea of the frustrating back ground.
Trying to get "some authority" to " follow The Law" to protect the ones who can not protect themselves.
The people who worked tirelesly to make some authority stand up and do something about this particular matter are Animals Australia.

Animals Australia are situtated In Melbourne and Ms Lyn White along with a team were determined that at least one or two of these people should be charged.

For The General Public it is important you understand that the So called animal Welfare In Australia is a joke.
It is the only act of Pariliment In Australia that is not followed.
Everybody just ignores it- pretty much. Some people may say but what about the RSPCA?
RSPCA have a MOU with Most State Governments.
For those who dont know a MOU is a agreement or understanding. RSPCA have also for years had a policy that live exports should be banned. RSPCA do not support live Animal exports and recomend animals are slaughtered as close to the place of origan as possible.

RSPCA do not have the power to police abattoirs either. They must be either invited or have a warrant to enter. It would be a bit hard to get the evidence to obtain a warrant when they do not police them now wouldnt it.

To Make things worse for the Animals Each State has different State Government laws making any acts impossible to police or lay charges etc.
Adding to that - they are few enforceable Acts for animal cruelty only what they term 'recomended codes of practise". That means- you dont have to do anything.
If your one of the millions of Australians who regect cruelty to animals keep an eye out on the date and watch carefully the out come of this case.
Good Job Animals Australia.

PALE had nothing to do with the court matter.

We just like %99 percent of Australian public support it

Others know far more than myself. I would encorage those people to post in simply lay terms making it easy for public to understand.

There have been several enquires into The Live Animal Exports in the past twenty years.

ALL Enquires which 'you the public paid for" recomended that Australia Ban Live exports without delay!

Yet here we are years later watching a groups of citizens push for charges to be laid against offenders?

Australia - much to our Shame is the largest exporter of ALIVE FEELING Animals in the World.

The public now are far more aware of this and live Animal Exports is very much a top political topic.

There is a great deal of misunderstanding.

If you listen to the media and Government you will here Animal Welfare Groups are a bunch of extremists nut cases.

Then you will hear that they are trying to destroy farmers!

Oh and what about the furfy that people overseas do not have refigration!??
Now I ask you men and Women Of Australia- Would The Government Lie?

I think we all saw[ just a tad] on the five segmants of 60 minutes[ Remembering they couldnt show the bad parts!

Not long ago the Muslim Leaders Of Australia put out a media release in SUPPORT of Animals Australia. They also subbmitted a alternative to the Senate enquiry into Animal Welfare.

It simply requested that the "media and Government be reasonsibly in reporting the REAL reasons for live Animal exports."

They also subbmitted a alternative to faze out live exports to the Senate enquiry into Animal Welfare.

Animals Australia and lyn White have friends they dont even know.

They have the 99 percent of the Australian Public and others in high places waiting the out come of the matter they brought to the courts.
I hope That is Also Taken Into consideration.
cruelty To Animals
Australian Citizens Say NO!

Every Australian Household will soon be veiwing this along with other footage.

http://www.rspca.org.au/campaign/liveexport_evidence.asp

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/content/2006/s1794731.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/australia/qld/capricornia/200605/s1641224.htm

`That is something else to consider`

Hi there
If the date of the court decision about Emanuel Exports was April 24 does anyone know what the outcome was? I don't think it will be allowed to win, because regardless of the consitutional issues of "separation of powers", the government will prevail on the courts over there so that it fails. Wasn't it Graham Daws from Emanuels who lost his exporter's license some years ago but continued to trade anyway through his directorship/s in other export companies? Congratulations to the RSPCA for an excellent web page and especially to Animals Australia and in particular Lyn White, for what must have been a horrific experience.
From Jenna

Hi There Jenna.

In answer to your question I think it should be up to Animals Australia to release the findings of the court.

I guess that will happen as soon as they are ready.

After saying that Jenna- I personally would not have a clue.

Perhaps it was held over again.

There are others who have the same sort of same evidence who support Lyns every account.

Lyn White has made a very real difference To Animals Australia and the Animal Welfare industry.

She has the full support of pale and half a dozen lawyers sitting up in QLD.

There are also many Muslims themselves who have spoken out against the Myths put out by the Industry.

Muslims say there is 'NO' reason the animals can not be slaughtered here in Australia.

Lyns involved "just for the animals" and I doubt she would give a hoot for anything else.

re Your question regarding Emanel Colledge and Graham Daws- Perhaps we might if you dont mind talk about later-[ after the findings of the court regarding Emanel Exports.]

What we could chat about now is the way in which people and companies in general seem to just go back to the Department Of Complience and get another licence.
Mind you there are never enough of these people charged in the first place.

I dont think a lot of the public are yet aware of the Live Animal export Enquires that have been held over the last 20 years.

Each Enquiry at huge cost to the tax payer has brought down the same findings- Halt Live Animal Exports without delay.

I should think that ought to make an interesting National court case personally to be run through the Federal Court.
People V the Queen etc.

Your clearly well informed Jenna and its good to know your there. These people can not continue to hide behind the Vaile.

It is without a doubt our Nations Biggest Shame.

Media Release

24 February 2006
Australian Muslims Are Against Animal Cruelty

The President of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils, Dr. Ameer Ali
today called on the Australian media not to act irresponsible in misinforming the
Australian public about the real reasons for live exports.

Dr. Ameer Ali said that Muslims are primarily concerned to ensure that the animal is slaughtered in accordance with the Islamic Shariah, and that can be done in Australia under the Australian Government supervised Muslim Slaughter Program (AGSMS) and we want the Australian public to know that we do not agree to animal cruelty.

He further said that Muslims in the Middle Eastern countries readily accept
Frozen and chilled lamb and mutton from Australia, once it is Halal certified
under the program. Last year Australian lamb meat exports to the Middle East was up 36% to a record of 14,052 tonnes, and Australian mutton meat export to the Middle East was up 24% in the same period to 36,051 Tonnes (ref. Farmonline News 1 Feb 2006). This represents the equivalent of more than 2 million sheep which were slaughtered in Australia for Middle Eastern Muslim customers.

Dr. Ali said that the Australian Muslims does not support the cruel treatment of animals prior to slaughter, that has been documented in Egypt as the Qur`an dictates that animals should be treated with kindness.

Dr. Ameer Ali, President
Dr. Munir Hussain, Chairman, Halal Committee

http://www.rspca.org.au/campaign/liveexport_evidence.asp

We Thank Animals Australia and Lyn White and We along with The Australian Public and the Muslim Leaders disclose there Is NO other reason for this cruelty other than a small amount of powerful peoples greed.
What A terribly legacy for Australia and even the peoples own children involved in this barbaric trade
Shame.

Jenna I can tell you this much- Our phones and email with enquires into the out come of this case have been flooded by the public.

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&cr=countryAU&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=wa+news+charges+laid+against+emanuel+exports+animal+cruelty+&spell=1

Latest NewsLive Export Company Charged With Animal Cruelty. Historic charges laid by ... have laid animal cruelty charges against a leading WA live export company for ...
www2.animal-lib.org.au/Detail.tpl?sku=20051110193658 - 19k - Cached - Similar pages

Cruelty charges 'threaten live exports' - Breaking News - Business ...Animal cruelty charges laid against a WA live export company, ... government and WA's state solicitor, have laid charges against Emanuel Exports and two of ...
www.smh.com.au/.../Cruelty-charges-threaten-live-exports/2005/11/10/1131578153158.html?oneclick=true - Similar pages

Charges laid over live export deaths. 10/11/2005. ABC News OnlineLive export company Emanuel is facing animal cruelty charges over a shipment ... Bowler has confirmed charges have been laid against two company directors. ...
www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200511/s1502401.htm - 24k - Cached - Similar pages

Charges laid over live export deaths - 10/11/2005Animal cruelty charges have been laid against a live sheep exporter in Western ... Emanuel Exports is alleged to have breached several sections of the Act ...
www.abc.net.au/rural/content/2005/s1502590.htm - 8k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.abc.net.au ]

Government and the Office of the WA State Solicitor, have laid animal cruelty. charges against a leading WA live export company for breaching the WA ...
www.aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/rrat_ctte/animal_welfare05/submissions/sub186.pdf - Similar pages

LIVESTOCK-ID-NEWS Archives -- November 2005 (#5)Animal cruelty charges have been laid against a live sheep exporter in ... for allegedly breaching the state's Animal Welfare Act. Emanuel Exports is ...
lists.dpi.qld.gov.au/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?A2=ind0511&L=livestock-id-news&D=0&P=447 - 27k - Cached - Similar pages

The ForumWhich just goes to show that farmers are most certainly NOT against conservation. ... Emanuel Exports are defending animal cruelty charges where 1340 sheep ...
forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=5257 - 528k - Cached - Similar pages

Legislative Assembly of Western Australia Hansard for 10/11/2005 ...EMANUEL EXPORTS PTY LTD, ALLEGED BREACHES OF ANIMAL WELFARE ACT ... charges were laid against export company Emanuel Exports Pty Ltd and two of its ...
www.parliament.wa.gov.au/.../hans35.nsf/0/00cd0705a68392db482570c0002d9dc3?OpenDocument&Date=2005-11-10 - 345k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.parliament.wa.gov.au ]

Result Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Nex

While we are waiting I would like to say this To Emanel Exports and others involved in the cruel Live Export Trade.

"The Games Over Boys give It up".

The public are aware you lot played your political trade dollar games with farmers and city folk for years.

You worked on the assumption that most ordinary people didnt follow the mumbo jumbo spin Dr Stuff.

Thought they wouldnt gasp how its done within the Industry and Government departments such as Austrade MLA.

Your assumption "was" correct. However thats now in the past.

The old you scratch my back and I will vote for you deals days are over.
In the past when fair minded people spoke out about the cruelty you set out to dispurse any public concerns with 'lies.'- calling them extreme or trouble makers.

You then lied to the public saying-- 'Oh they dont have any refigration"- :"those poor people."

Who can forget the - The The Muslims require it alive for their rituals.
You even had the Ministers sold on that one thinking it was a huge joke.
How long did you think the Muslim People would sit back and let you lot blame them for your greed of the trade dollar and cruelty?

Apart from which your lies spread further misunderstanding of people and hate.

The funding is made up fifty fity from tax payers dollars and the industry.

You keep yours and we will be asking a seperate board be established to represent Australian Farmers, reopen plants, value adding and promote "their products"

Austrade and Mark Vaile were not interested to help set up co joint farms.
Well Gee Wiz- So The Overseas people had to be contacted in a different way.
So what.
Done.!

Now we want "our share" of the tax payers funds to help Australian farmers.
Thats fair 50 50. You peddle your cruelty and we will reopen plants and help farmers with value adding and better prices.
See you at the sale yards.

Hi there PALE
Thanks for the great information. Are we absolutely sure that the names and addresses you have given here for Emanuels are correct - that they are the people we should be writing to/contacting? I'm not doubting you for a second but I'd hate to send them a full colour submission of the Animals Australia material (which of course they already have, but it can't hurt to get up their noses, can it?)unless they are the people who are ACTIVELY involved. I sent it (reproduced the CD and DVD material and full colour printed reports with photos) to every politician in Tasmania and ALL the Tasmanian Federal representatives in the Senate and House of Representatives - and got precisely nothing in response (Go Greens, now the Democrats seem to have lost power).
Shipping matters seem to be pre-occupying them in WA at present - I understand that the partly loaded (in Adelaide) "Al Shuwaikh" was left outside Fremantle for three days because they will only allow one vessel to load in Fremantle at a time now. This is, I suspect, a push to get their new set-up going (James Point, I think it's called) where they will be away from the public gaze of Fremantle (and the authorities, of course). They claim this causes "animal welfare concerns", which was the most bizarre claim I have seen in a long time.
It is also worth reminding Kevin Rudd that as a practising Christian we would expect him to feel a duty towards Australian animals.
Good night for now,
Jenna

Good Morning Jenna

To the best of my knowledge the 'current addresses' and names of the company involved are up the top.
In the past when somebody was charged they wondered off and registered another company name and went about their business , like nothing happend?
Criminal charges down the track `surely` will be laid. False pretences or something similar.

I heard one of these people who had been charged and fined about half a dozen time ended up being a director of a big live export company.

Isnt that terrible.

Its said he even used his ' OWN name'.

If that be the case I think an open public Royal Commishion "must" be called urgently .

I will listen to you and Go the Greens - thanks. That was great you send the footage to the house of representives. The DVD and CD will now have to be delivered to every house hold in Australia. If you have an idea what that will cost I would appreciate your input.

I heard there is a group that serve the lord by walking door to door talking with people are going to take this issue up. Perhaps they will knock on Kevin Rudds Door Soon and Steve Fieldings.

When I hear more I will let you know.

They say they will hold a meeting and ask for this to be "standard practise nationally".

That would be good because they can just show people on a lap top a bit of it and leave the DVD or CV with them.

Yes your right about the ships. I suspect they just want to keep it out of the public eye. it would appear.

Whats the AMIEU in WA saying about the block on abattoir workers coming into to WA do you know?

I mean surely they agree that new Halal Slaughter men are required to train others to open a new place?

Since when was creating jobs and value adding a problem for Labour?

I am sure Her Worship was very upset by the evidence she witnessed.
A message to kevin Rudd>
http://consciousevolution.com/onshu/view_signatures.php

Hi PALE and others
The cost of sending the material to every household in Australia would be absolutely prohibitive, I should think - how would you find out how many there actually are? I think I paid $2.50 for postage for all the ones I sent (although some of the packages were not as big as others; I didn't waste additional resources on some of the wastes of space we have down here), and I reproduced everything here from material Animals Australia sent me. I also have it all on my laptop, along with a PowerPoint presentation I did for some schools here (at their invitation). The presentation was put together before this most recent investigation, though.
It could be worth an enquiry of Australia Post whether this might be an option; I think they may give "bulk" rates.
I have asked AMSA for some additional information about some of the ships, because I understand that at least two and possibly more have been "mothballed" because they do not meet the regulations implemented in January 2007 (The "Al Kuwait" and the "Bader III" I think, but don't quote me on that - the "Bader III" was last (recently) identified floating around in the middle of nowhere). For the sake of interest, the "Rodolfo Mata" which became the "Deneb Prima" is now to become the "Castor", and the hideously decrepit "Farid F" (having been detained in Australian ports at least five times) has been refitted and returned as the "Torrens".
AMSA has now handed over all its responsibilities in relation to animal welfare (as in Marine Orders No. 43) to AQIS. One knew all about ships and nothing about animals, the other knows (little) about animals and not very much at all about ships. Go figure!
From Jenna

Hello Jenna And All.

Well at least you have managed to keep your sense of humour- `some how`.
Reply regarding getting a CD to each house.

It can be done. Maybe not all at once.

I agree postage is too expensive.

When you stop to think about it the last lot of pictures put out by Animals Australia would be fine.

You might ask them.?

Public speaches is a step in the right direction. Good work.

We need to do some research. I want to know how many RSPCA members there are in Australia - Then AA- AL PAACT voiceless HS AACT and the other fifty or so Animal Groups.
Once we had an idea we could go from there.
I ought not to be giving this much away at the bar, so to speak.


We have been invited to several Churches.
I hope later we can pay for TV advertising.
Jenna Said>
AMSA has now handed over all its responsibilities in relation to animal welfare (as in Marine Orders No. 43) to AQIS.
Reply
Ah Yes `AQIS` Can you get a copy of the requirements under the handover?
I think we might find some diverting to air. That will be the next so called improvement in the name of animal welfare.

Do you recall the Drs name that put out the report on noise and stress to animals? Think we might need it.
Watch Wa in the next few weeks.
I wonder if they really know how much public interest is in this case AA brought on.
Tell you what our phone has not stopped with people asking the result of that case and we are in QLD.

Her "Honour" must be on stress leave after veiwing the evidence!

http://consciousevolution.com/onshu/view_signatures.php

Oh but here I go again forgetting my manners.

I would like to Thank Elders one of the largest Live Animal exporters In Australia for Sponsering this page.

Also To remind the Australian public of what live animal exports are.>

http://www.rspca.org.au/campaign/liveexport_evidence.asp

6 point 10% ah.

NO THANKS!

How could Elders or anybody else make money from such a cruel trade?

I am so ashamed of my Government that allowed this to continue.

We will be opening plants and we will be inviting overseas purchasers of meat to co join with Aussie farmers.
All our Farms will be free range and creek fed.
People world wide will want free green health meat for "their" familys.
99 percent of people will be happy pay more to get it and have a big concern for animal welfare.

After all these people are hardley broke in most cases are they.

What I dont understand is why you dont get into Free Range Farms and Farming Education Schools and wrap it up together with real estate.
I mean you have all the sea change people and arriving in Australia.
Anyway that what I will be doing. I am very confident some of the other banks and real estate agents will welcome the chance to crack into it.

Here is a message from not only Australian people but the world.
I suggest you read it.

http://consciousevolution.com/onshu/view_signatures.php

Thank you once again Elders The Large Traders Of lIVE Animals for sponsering this page.

Cruelty to Animals The Australian and World Wide Public Say NO

Hi PALE
Could you not find out RSPCA membership numbers through your connection with RSPCA Queensland? I don't have any connection with them, so they would be unlikely to tell me, I suspect. I'm not aware of the doctor's report you mention, but did you happen to see the claptrap from MLA'a Nigel Btown in Middle Eastern (but not Australian) newspapers in the middle of last year (Gulf Daily News and others)? He said that it is perfectly fine to hog-tie sheep and transport them in the boots of cars, because it makes them "feel safe" (we should try it on him and see if he feels safe). He further said that it is common practice in Australia and Europe. He has also posted a response to Juanita Phillips' interview with Lyn White in The Bulletin - have a look at the stuff at www.liveexportcare.com. I've never seen such a great collection of fairy tales. Here in Tasmania the lead live exporter was/is Roberts, also a large real estate entity, but I suspect, from reading the farmers' rag TasCountry that Elders has been doing it by stealth all along by sending the animals to Victoria first, to be shipped out of Portland. The Department of Primary Industry, which sub-contracts a vet to AQIS, is refusing to answer questions about that. I'll see if I can get something on the AMSA/AQIS handover, but I haven't been able to find any publicly available documents yet. If you read that thoroughly flawed report about Australia having the highest standards in livestock exports in the world, you will see that - yet again - it only goes as far as the ship while it is in an Australian port.
Bye for now

Jenna

Jenna
Sure I will find out for you about how many members in QLD. I suppose I ought to know but don’t. Yes we are connected We working in conjunction with RSPCA QLD on the Live Animal Exports See>
http://www.livexports.com/

No I have not seen Nigels Latest in ME. Could you send it via the pale site please?
We might just have to send some info there ourselves.
I have not looked at the other site you put up. I have been meaning to. Don’t worry we have our own contacts and can also get the correct information out to people.
Its very GOOD they have been silly enough to put that out Jenna. Makes it much easier for us to go back and inform the people its not Halal doing it that way but Harum Forbidden.\

They will listen to us before him I promise you. Muslims listen to muslims re Halal meat. the fact they are waisting money over there shows they are worried.
Thats Ok. if we dont Accredit it as halal that wont touch it even if they go hungry.
Unless Nigel is going to covert to Islam I think they will see it as a joke like us.
These [people are not stupid
Re Tasi. Yes you are correct. That’s is correct. AWB also who are with Elders regarding these activitys.
You know your stuff.
I can help with some of these docs you want but please call me 0755392369.
I will call you straight back to save your costs. I don’t wish to post some of it yet.
Could you please help me locate a few Halal Abattoirs/. I had them all written down but mis placed them/. I can call AMIEU but it would be easier for you.
.

Look at this We will be on it soon. Should have been ages ago but - time.
We are also starting Muslim Animal Awarness groups.
Perhaps you might help. REALLY need it.
http://www.afic.com.au/Halal.htm
thank you Jenna for all you do.
My both Gods bless you.
Whatever,
cheer

Hi all

Here's the link to the story containing Nigel Brown's wisdom in handling sheep as they clearly should be handled and the edited paragraph. The whole article is on the lead page at www.liveexportshame.com.

http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/1yr_arc_Articles.asp?Article=143121&Sn=BNEW&IssueID=29051&date=5/10/2006

"Dr Brown said with regards to animals being put into car boots for home slaughter, he said it was actually more reassuring for them to be put in a confined space and have their feet bound, rather than running around alone in a big van.

"How can you handle sheep? Either you are pulling them, or pushing them to get them in there," he said.

"It's common to bind their feet whether in Australia, or Europe. We bind their feet with soft rope so they can lay comfortably."

This was not quoted in any Australian newspapers that I've been able to find.

PALE, according to the AMIEU here, all abattoirs (remaining) slaughter in compliance with halal requirements. But I was listening to ABC Rural News today and they had a rather disturbing story that suggested that Australia would be prepared to change its animal welfare standards in order to conform with "whatever the Muslims want". I understood that to mean that if they say "no stunning" then there will be no stunning.

They also said that each Muslim country has different requirements, and specified Indonesia, Malaysia and Saudi Arabia.

By the way - can anyone tell me why Australian animals are exported to CATHOLIC countries like the Philippines and Mexico? The "cultural requirements" argument doesn't really stand up, does it?

From Jenna

Hello everyone
Does anyone know if there has been an update on this case? Now the government has signed a MoU with LIBYA, of all Godforsaken places, which provides only for the animals to be unloaded into a quarantine facility. No other welfsre measures are in place.
As for Nigel Brown, Jenna, you really wouldn't expect any better from a man who has probably been paid extremely well to tell outrageous lies about the treatment of animals in the Middle East - and one, moreover, who really doesn't give a damn about them. It is interesting to see that that immortal quote never made it to the Australian media though. I'm sure Yabby would agree that such behaviour towards animals is quite acceptable and commonplace though - he probably does all that and more.
Nicky.

I'm sure Libya's money is a good as anyones, why not trade with them. The MoU is all about improving animal welfare during the export process.

http://www.maff.gov.au/releases/07/07056pm.html

1 Hello Jenna, Nicky
Jenna dont worry about Nigel.
Thats "just what they want" a debate about that.
Then somebody says people in Australian bush transport them that way. Before you know the focuss has switched from ME to Aussie farmers. Called politics.


2 Your on the ball re ABC story.
This holds the key. Bit of a sercurity problem with our sponsers.
As well with the MOU with Muslim leaders. Its carefully we tread. This is one boat we dont want to rock the wrong way.

Yes its true. There are different requirements for Halal accreditations. Personally I have always found its more about money than anything.
[ I ought to add with `some overseas contacts]

AQIS can NOT bend the rules for anybody. Its most important they dont. These people are smart and See Australia as a hub for Halal Meats.

They like disease free green products. No reason to bend our standards "for anybody".
Important the public understand there are about 13 Halal certifiers in Australia alone and hundreds elsewhere.
If we put Animal Welfare to the side and looked at todays world we have to consider this more.
Why are we still giving electronic export licences through AQIS?
How do we know whom we are dealing with?. We all saw the AWB enquiry and 'where' the Government and Industry sent our money.

Surely it is in the "interests of the public saftey that we have ONE National accreditation for Halal Meats.

Apart from meat we dont want the same inta fighting between Muslim groups as overseas.
This needs to be done as a matter of urgency by the Government.
I hope you are following Jenna.

RE your question about the Catholic or Muslim. No there is no reason for either as both readily except chilled meat.
Perhaps you could petition the heads of the Catholic Churches to stop it OR At least to do as Muslim leaders have done and put out a media Release that Catholic dont require animals alive for religious rituals.
I would rather think that might be in their interests.
Wouldnt You?

Rojo Nicky Jenna.
Rojo, Thanks for that. Yes I know but remember FF and APA etc wont pass on info to farmers. Sure we can get Liba and others ' except' they wont let us talk to the farmers. I hope you understand that everybody else 'can' contact farmers through them. Its pretty much the same as them blocking us bringing in workers in WA. Its all to protect the live exports and those involved.

Nicky. No I have not heard. Other than the descion was kept from the public. I am guessing but that might mean AA have got up on something. I hear there is an appeal. Emaunel Exports probably have brought on that action. They are being funded through the- You guessed it Farmers Federation groups.

Now perhaps Rojo and Yabby you might understand what I am saying about these groups you THINK work for the farmers best interests.

Clearly its in the farmers best interests to meet the people in ME buying his meat direct. Just as clearly the farmers federations are protecting the middle man and live exporter.

Now I intend to lobby the Government to have contact with farmers. In times like this we could be the answer to their prayers.

Nicky Yabbys not that bad. He wrote to the WA papers and Government to open more plants ages ago. That more than some did. He 'loves' to torment you that all. Hes a bloke they are always annoying.

Also Nicky he doesnt know about the FF etc. When Nigel and Camerron Travel they really turn it on and make it look best as possible.

Nicky we really need to be friend some farmers. and others.
People read these posts years later and we dont want to look over the top for the animals sake. See>

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&cr=countryAU&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=+wa+appeal+live+exports+emanuel+exports+&spell=1

The only other thing I have to share with you ladies is that I may be leaving soon.

I will let you know when I do.
Goodnight

"I'm sure Yabby would agree that such behaviour towards animals is quite acceptable and commonplace though - he probably does all that and more."

Nicky, the point you miss, as you clearly know noooothing about
sheep, is that Nigel is actually correct. Yup, sheep are tied
by their legs in both Australia and Europe and carted around.
Its common practise all over Australia.

There are good reasons for that. Sheep are herd animals and
feel safe in numbers. When on their own, they often panic
and do themselves a major injury. They are not like your
poochy poo! You really need to work on a farm sometime,
to actually be a bit better informed.

yabbyrojo
Nickys done nothing other than show some common deceny just like the rest of Australian people who our OUTRAGED by the cruel live export trade.
Your the one who knows "nothing about the industry." Your posts across the broad are nothing more than copies of the proper ganda you have picked up off the web pages by those with vetted interests.

You attack myself personally all the time with our Halal kind Meats progects. You actually "forget" what you read [or think others will] and repeat what I have told you months later. What is your `real` problem Yabby. You attack me saying I know nothing about the meat Industry. Granted I know not as much as some but have lawyers who ran plants with their family for years and x federal leaders of AMIEU Not to mention with AFIC. You have seen all that on our web pages. Now you have the cheek on the other thread to bag AFIC complaining their link is a dud. I would be careful of what I said if I were you. Try again

http://www.afic.com.au/

Your clearly bored sitting there on your own because nobody can put up with you.
And whats this crap on the other page about the pictures not being Australian Animals? Even the Government have acknowledged there are.
Lyn white and Animals Australia and Animal Liberation have all done a wonderful job and PETA too. No we dont always agree on the best solutions yabby but there is one thing we "ALL" agree on and thats this evil vile trade must and will stop.
Australian farmers have a wonderful oportunity BUT THEY must also get off their bums and take control. They are reasonsibly for their animals.
YOU said what stopping a group of farmers doing some abattoirs by forming some co ops- and thats! about the only sensible comment you have made so far on OLO.
Why dont YOU go ask them huh.
Live Exports is a gross injustice carried out under a cloud of mockery by a a small evil group of people through trade deals.

Wendy, I think you are confusing Rojo and myself. He clearly seems
like one of the few on the animal libber threads, capable of
reason and not just overwhelmed with emotions, so I appreciate
his input, but he will have his points, I will have mine.

What I am doing on OLO on the animal libber threads is quite simple.
I've seldom seen a bunch of threads with so much misinformation!
People relying on eons old video clips, distorted information,etc.
Now we are told by you, what a wonderful job Animal liberation
and Peta are doing. You might live on the Gold Coast, but I live
in the middle of a farming community and frankly if you expressed
those kinds of opinions here, they might well run you out of town:)

I do understand the psychology behind it. I've seen city women
move to the country, marry a farmer and want to bemother every
new born motherless lamb that comes along. But farm livestock
are not pets, neither are they children. Eventually she has to
accept that she can't bemother them all, reality prevails and
she accepts that some will have to be donged on the head. Usually
thats accepted, as long as she doesent see it :)

You should read Goleman's "Emotional Intelligence" The stronger
an emotion, the less we reason. Thats exactly what I see on these
threads, alot of women confusing bemothering pets with farm livestock.
These threads are about black and white, exactly as Goleman stated!

So I am here to add a little bit of reason to this debate, so that
the misinformation going out to the public is not total. Fact is
that thousands of WA farmers support the live trade, as it feeds
their families.

Who is this "all" that you refer to? So far on these threads,
nearly all veggies or closet veggies. Many of them seem to hate
livestock farmers for doing what they do. So we will never have
a solution.

So I will continue to add some balance to this misinformation
campaign on OLO

Message from George The lawyer abattoir owner you see on the web page.
Do not make personal attacks. You have no way of knowing what we do and dont know. Are you saying pale has posted misinformation on this public forum?
make my Day,

Oooh, internet law, I love internet law. Is George a bone fide internet lawyer? If it goes to internet court, can we be on the internet jury? Internet lawsuits are fun!

LOL Bugsy :) For those interested, MLA, with support from farmer
organisations, has answered some of the allegations about the live
trade. Anyone is free to check the info.

http://www.liveexportcare.com/get_facts/myth_busting.html

When the farmers fighting fund was set up, one purpose was to
defend farmers, who go about their lawfull business in earning
their living. Thats why those funds were used in the Emmanuel
case. Farmers understand the importance of the live trade to
WA farming families. Anyone is free to buy those livestock
and do something else with them, if they please or have
an alternate option!

Yabby.
Do you know anybody in MLA. We have been speaking with the heads of MLA over a long period.
.
Have 'you' a personal call from the fellow in charge of MLA in ME?
Does he ever email you? We are not saying MLA are corrupt.

We are saying the Government favoured live exports because of powerful poeple like Kerry Packer and Murdocks involements over many years. [ Just to mention a few]
Mind you back then labours unions certainly put Australia in a spot. If it had been ANYTHING other than ALIVE Animals I would have said Good On them.
Now AMIEU are crying because all the plants have closed and they lost all the members and their fees. Still WA have been stopped from employing skilled labour for Abattoirs. Why is the WA AMIEU so quiet about that?
I draw your attention for the THIRD TIME in Answer to your question- What about the 40g given to the off shore company over the Aussie who only asked for five hundred thousand. I must insist you answer.
Come on Yabby Answer the question?
What was the name of THAT plant? Whats the name of the company that was given the 40 G.

Yes Yabby we all know MLA have funding and we all know they have strick guidelines to follow. Do the fund for live exports- yes - red meat - yes.
Can they promote a co joint venture of share farms for eg to introduce ME people to farmers at grass roots levels.
Most certainly not.
Why? Because they Government would have to approve that through Austrade
Why wont the Government approve that. To be fair to Peter McGuaran he has expressed interest and is waiting for some docs. John Howard also has said it certainly sounds as if it deserves a look. Even Mark Vaile has made similar noises. Thats 'far' more than your Mr Rudd said.
Please answer our question.

Wendy, the Govt does not favour live exports. They simply
understand that there a huge market there, which matters critically
to farmers. Ignore consumers at your peril, that is what business
is all about these days. The Hajj lambs for instance, go for the
Hajj pilgrimage. Go and tell Saudi Arabia, the home of Islam,
that they don't need Hajj lambs for their religious festival.
They will soon tell you where to go! Mind you, I see that they
bought a heap of lambs from China last year, although they had problems
with them, just not up to Aussie quality.

AFAIK we supply about a third of Hajj lambs. The rest come from
all over Africa, Europe, and now China has entered the market.
They have more sheep in China then we do in Aus.

Regards how much the Govt gave to whom for meatworks, I haven't
read the documents or reasoning, so won't comment on specific
grants, except to say this: Giving grants to build piddley small
meatworks is a total waste of time, as the Govt would realise that
the future of the meat industry is about highly labour efficient
plants, where economies of scale are critical, to achieve lower
per unit costs. I'll give you an example. If automated packaging
machinery is installed at a fixed cost, it will operate wether
you put through 200'000 sheep or a million. Your cost per unit,
will thus be dramatically lower. Thats why the future of small
mum and dad plants is doomed, thats today's reality.

The board of MLA, elected by farmer members who pay levies, have
a duty to spend their money wisely. They are accountable to farmers
and the Govt. If you are a real farmer, who grows cattle or sheep,
you get to vote. Perhaps the board in their wisdom, decided that
your project is not viable or credible, that would be their
decision. If you are a farmer levy payer and disagree with them, you are free
to go the AGM and express your views.

Yabby

Antje Here
We are not interested in your endless copies of propa ganda written on the the web pages of people with interests in live exports.
Nor have we unlike some said ban live exports over night.
We intend to continue to work hard to faze it out as soon as possible. This will be a win for Australia especialy in regional areas.
What we have said is this. That it is a myth to say Muslims require animals alive and their is no reason animals can not be slaughtered here in Australia. This has been supported by the Muslim people as well.
We have said as also it is untrue there is no power and an insult.
We have also said there are other lerks and perks and the real reason for live exports is it supports those involved in the industry by trade deals that goes over the heads of farmers.
That said and said many times we move on. We continue to work hard to bring about a higher trade of chilled meats.
It is this in fact that seperates us from the other animal welfare groups who have written claiming they would not support anything to do with building abattoirs.
The difference is we support the RSPCA policy who state so long as it is done properly people should be allowed to eat meat.
Yabby I would like to say to you from me that I was present the evening you contacted this ofice. You were told it was not a good time and you did laugh by what my you were told. Neither Wendy nor myself appreciate your attempt to cause further personal stress in regards to this matter. Do not make futher comments regading Wendys family.

As I informed you a year ago or more I moved to QLD to help run this office. Take it from me the farmers the public the Government all have a reasonsibilty to slaughter in Australia. Not all farmers are broke so why have they not opended abattoirs themselves.

Antje, I remind you that the recent case against Peta has shown that
animal libber groups can basically claim whatever they like, with relative impunity.
They mostly don't have any assets, so there is not
much point in taking them to court. They are answerable to nobody
except their donors, whose emotional buttons they push.

Unlike say MLA, who are answerable to Government and to tens of
thousands of farmers, also to the public. If you think that the
information provided by MLA is "propaganda", so prove it. MLA
are accountable, unlike the libber groups.

What it comes down to is mostly an argument between veggies,
closet veggies, versus vets, farmers and other qualified people.
I'll back the qualified people any day!

The Hajj is THE major Muslim, religious festival. Millions of
pilgrims go to Mecca. Millions of sheep, cattle, goats, camels
are slaughtered in specially built abattoirs, as part of that
pilgrimage. You seem to be claiming that the Saudis, the home of
Islam after all, don't know what they are talking about. Perhaps
you should rethink your position :)

Regarding defending Wendy's claims, I remind you that you two are
thick as thieves, best friends, workmates, housemates etc. Of course
you are going to back her up, we went through this little joke
on OLO, when legal claims against a poster called PF were being
discussed by you guys.

Antje, I suggest that you have a look at the emails sent to me
by Wendy, around the 21-22-8-06. They verfiy my claims. Wendy
was in court all day, so was a bit worn out. No mention of any
deaths. Phone records show that the conversation, at Wendy's request,
lasted just over 60 minutes, against her claimed 3 minutes.
For me it was a business call. I don't care who invests in WA
processing, I will support them all. Thats why I bothered to
respond to her request.

Given that you guys keep burning your bridges when people agree to
disagree with you, no wonder your group don't have much support.
Stop blaming the world, the problem is yours.

Yabby

The last I heard PETA were on about 40 Million per year but dont quote me because it may be more now. Apart from that PETA Won so I dont see your point. Unless you are talking about a different case. We have no contact with PETA. WE are not a veggie group either. We work in conjunction with RSPCA QLD who are not a veggie group
You have already told us you have written off letters and made noises about opening abattoirs in WA .
My question to you is Mr Yabby why dont you do it.?
Dont worry about us and what we are doing just go ahead and do it without us.
Yes Mr Yabby I am a working at the office but I am living there. Not thats its your business. I was there when you called.
You recall we had just come in from court. Now try to cast your mind back what the case was about. Then what you said and how you laughed. I heard you!!
Well you may not have INTENDED to upset anybody but you did. Do not continue you raise private and personal issues especially when it can only result in upset. If you raise this "once more" I will contact OLO .

MLA is free to join. I am also a member. The structure working under several Governments has been set up to favour certain people. You were given a example. 40k to the Japanese opposed to the Aussie who only asked for $500.00 thousand. I dont know ONE Vet who supports Live exports nor does RSPCA.
Also pale is working with RSPCA QLD and other high profile organisations. Thats hardly unsupported
Antje

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/stories/s1102655.htm

Vets voted overwhelmingly to support live exports at the AVA. 90% in fact.

Wrong Rojo Most Vets DONT support live exports.

RSPCA Presdient has said AVA are just looking after their jobs. He is one Vet who doesnt agree!

THE AVA reminds me of that song Run Rabbit.

We not so long ago had a meeting with the Federal AG Ministers advisor on the Gold Coast.
I personally invited AVA to attend that meeting and spoke to the AVA head in Brisbane. It was agreed as he was the close he would attend. No show no call.
So you are they are not real big on manners either Rojo. After that I spoke to the head lady to enquire why AVA had not raised concerns at the board meetings when 60 minutes did their report.
It was explained to me because they had a```` system```````` of raising these things.

So here is what I was told by AVA.
To raise anything two Vets must put in a formal application to do so.

Few members are even aware of this procedure. Which
Reminds me we must send our letters out to all AVA Vet Members to inform them of this. To put in an application to have the matter raised is very complicated and time consuming. Its certainly not encouraged that’s for sure. Does anybody remember that poor bloke who had his pass port taken off him in the ME because he dared to say something?

I don’t like bullies Rojo. And I have met them all.
Each and every one of those fools. So you could say we are fool proof.
The ONLY reason we have not got around to the AVA has been a time issue- Nothing less.
The head lady did express concern over the phone when speaking with me Rojo. She said she had heard that some of those AA people had said they were going to protest out side their office.
I told her she had heard wrong.
That was me. To which she replied- Well we will just take the day off then- AVA have betrayed the animals they swore their allegiance to.

Run Rabbits indeed!

paleif, either the AVA voted or they didn't. The news link says they did. I did say 90% in favour so there may in fact be more than "one" dissenter. Thats fine it is a free country. One of you as paleif said
" I dont know ONE Vet who supports Live exports" when it seems you only know one vet who doesn't. And he happens to head RSPCA.
The picture you paint is unsupported.

"Message from George The lawyer abattoir owner you see on the web page.
Do not make personal attacks. You have no way of knowing what we do and dont know. Are you saying pale has posted misinformation on this public forum?
make my Day, "

I have just read this - how appalling and embarrassing!

Pale - you sound like a bully in a school playground. How can behaviour like this help your credibilty at all?

As for George - if he did tell you to send a message thru OLO, which I seriously doubt - what sort of lawyer is he? Never mind .... I just answered that one for myself.

PF, the animal libber groups can say whatever they like, with seeming
impunity. Look at some of the claims that Peta made, like "dinner
plate size pieces of flesh" were apparently removed at mulesing.
Now most lambs at mulesing are only the size of a large dinner
plate, anyone who knows about it knows thats just rubbish. They
were told, but it made no difference, don't let the truth get in
the way of a good story lol.

Thats why they have so little credibility, outrageous claims which
they don't have to prove. I guess these groups need and want
public money, so they push peoples emotional buttons whichever way
they can.

PF
Firstly on behalf of pale staff members and crapy lawyers we would like to wish yourself and country Girl Jenna Nicky and Animal Welfare posters or readers a very Happy Mothers day.
oh what the heck you too Yabbs your like and old woman anyway, he he he.
PF Whats got up your nose again. You always jump to conclusions who said George aimed that message at you.
Despite that we are aware you are one of the very few who put in enormous time to do your bit to improve conditions for animals.
As a free Range farmer your posts are invaluable. So as we know you dont do it for us we thank you on behalf of the Animals.
Happy Mothers Day. From All of us.

Rojo You comment on the other thread was a fair and wise one which I intend to take on board as much as possible.

Good One on the AVA . Great somebody is pointing the people in the right direction. I hope to see a lot more of it. i wonder if we could get insight or somebody to bring on a debate. AVA vets verses every day Vets. See what we can do and let you know.
Thats The Australian Veterinary Association Verses every day Vets.

We have a Vet who is a member actually. He used to export live cattle to ME years ago. That is until he went over and saw it.
I know he would love to debate it on live TV with the young AVA Vets who usually just come out of college and by the way have a new President elected each year.
Last but not least Yabbs I cant see any animal libbers on here tonight can you? Only the old rednecks up in QLD. Dream On I know you miss Nicky. Try to contribute something towards animal welfare. Tell us about your animals the girls are telling me to say.

Whats got up my nose pale? - comments like that to start with. This is a public forum and correct me if I am wrong, but posts are meant to be read by all? I don’t care that your threats were directed at another poster, I still read them and see how badly you treat anyone that opposes your view. It seems the only way you can defend what you do, attack and threaten other posters. Pretty poor form pale.

Yabby – it is very unfortunate that some of the animal libbers would prefer to run with sensationalism when they could stick to the facts and still get the reaction they were looking for. It just makes it so easy for the other side to make them look silly when they make exaggerated claims. Do they ever actually consult with people in the industry to at least try and make some of these claims credible? I wish some of them had contacted me before they made certain public claims about pigs in an effort to tug on gullible heart strings.

Anyway, what is happening with this court case? (and I don’t mean any threatened action by pale:) )

PF
Sorry no can Do. We are not about to post details of cases in consideration- other than basic priniple up on the net-
Nor are we Libbers. I do not see Yabby talking to libbers here either.
I have not got a clue what you mean about groups speaking with yourself.
WE certainly did not do much regarding pigs. We support your efforts and as you know I personally arranged for a form to be sent to you suggesting you go on the advisory board for animal welfare regarding pig farming.
Clearly you were not interested because you did not reply to Antje. We also offrered to set ou up in a ag school and assist you to fund your book.
There is nothing else we can do. We have always wished you well in your efforts which are nothing short of amazing.
If I were voiceless or Animals Australia I would have wrapped you up in cotton wool and made you an offer you couldnt refuse.
It must be VERY frustrating to have all your knowledge and have offered to share that knowledge to be ignored.
Yeh I know they put you on the web site now after we gave them a biffing about it. `Good`
I think your the answer staring them in the face. You know it and so do I.
What more could a animal welfare groups ask for than a Free range Farmer helping educate the public.
I am as frustrated about it as you are. However our main task at the monent IS live exports and to be honest[really honest] we were asked not to work on pigs and stick to live exports after your calls.
Not that I always do what I am told. You dont want to work with us to meet these Russian Business people to put up the ag school so there IS nothing I can Do about that.
Umm Sorry about the up your nose comment. Probably should not have said that. Looking back it doesnt read well.
We still hope you enjoyed mothers day.

For pity sake … these threads are not all about pale

Just to steer you back on track “Judge Hands Down Findings on EMANEL EXPORTS WA” that’s the heading at the top of the page:)
I don’t have the slightest interest in any actions being brought about or thought about by pale. I was interested in the Emanuel case.

You had nothing at all to do with my relationship with Voiceless or AA so stop patting yourself on the back.

Yabby – I am sure you understood that I was referring to your comments, no reference at all to pale.

PF
I am busy. You can play your games with anybody you like. It means zero to me. I am pleased you are now talking with the others and I most sincerly mean that. However your `written` word tells a different story. Your original complaint to me was certain people had refused to support Free Range Farmers any further than to say they did.
We wrote and left those people in no uncertain terms how we felt about that and still do.
Soon after that you a ``least 'were put up on their site.'
I am sure our complaint helped.
Despite that what else is happening in regards to support not only yourself but Free Range Farmers?
As for the court Case I suggest you contact them.
We have supported the matter as much as possible and will contiune to do so.
If you have nothing postive to post then dont. We will contiune to support all Free Range Farmers leaving personal views to one side.
I suggest you concentrate on promting good farmers and free range farmers and stop making trouble.
Mainly because its you that its hurting nobody else.

What you have with pale is a group of dedicated non paid people working to improve animal welfare.
For some reason that bothers a small group of people.
Interesting.
Even if we had never acheived anything I wont have you continue
to rubbish good people with good intentions.
Why do you think Taryn didnt reply. Because she was shocked and hurt to see you at it again. Thats why.
She also works hard. We appreciate the few times you have actually made comments regarding the animals and encourage you to continue for the sake of the animals.
best wishes for the future to you.

Whether you appreciate what I have to say or not is of little worry to me wendy.

You started this thread to discuss the Emanuel case but it seems you know nothing of it at all. "Go ask them myself?" This was just another excuse to flog a dead horse. How tiresome.

PF
I do not know your problem as much as we have tried to help.
The fact remains yes your efforts to do the right thing by the animals you breed are appreciated.
Other than that as I said best wishes for the future.
Re Emanuel we are aware what is happening however it is certainly not our place to put that information up.
Perhaps somebody from there might like to say something . Many have contacted us and stated its pretty clear that not all efforts are appreciated. No Matter we support anyone and everyone. You should know that.
It is a matter of record we have stood by all groups.
That remains although we hold our own views as others do. Thats what makes it good.
Many people just like yourself all working for the one purpose.
For the Animals.
Now unless as I said you have something to say re that we will not be responding.
The old saying- You can Lead a horse to water- applies.
Also we have been asked not to try to work with you.
I thought I would go against that because your a free range farmer however I have been proved wrong. It seems others were correct.
As I said Very best wishes

Oops PF, she's really told you now :)

I havent heard any results, but what it came down to is that the
WA Govt supports the live trade, aware of the many changes that
have been made to boats, procedures etc, quite different to the
trade some years ago. Ignoring all those changes is of course a
folly. They are also aware of the economic importance of the
trade to farmers in this State. Feedlots are legal in this State,
so what does it matter if they float?

Anyhow, the WA Govt changed the animal welfare act, the intent
being pets, dogs, cats etc. But new laws mean new interpretations
by lawyers, new legal arguments. This is whats been done, as
I understand it, in this case. If the case should go against the
live export trade, then the Govt will have to change the laws,
simple as that. But before they did that, I think the idea was
to first see how they were interpreted in the courts.

Dear Yabby
Have you never heard of the doctrine of "separation of powers"? The independence of the judiciary from the government? If the WA government intervenes in tbis case it is clear corruption, particularly after Animals Australia had to issue a writ of Mandamus to force the Department of Local Government to act in the first place after the RSPCA failed to do so.
Everyone else - it would be SO GOOD to see a thread not develop into a free-for-all slanging match about "veggie" groups and others, obscure threats and insults, and not maligning other groups (BTW - what sensationalism? They say nothing about live exports,intensive pig farming, battery hen farming, rodeos, circuses etc that is not true. It is just that Yabby doesn;t want to know. Get some facts at www.liveexportshame.com.
I have read the fairytales at www.liveexportcare.com. There is a reason why biased journos like Cameron Morse get to go on the "Becrux". He should, along with the charming Ms Copping, go for a trip on the "Maysora", or the "Bader III" at a time of the year when temperatures are soaring.
Now -can we please keep it nice and maintain a bit of focus on the topic?
Nicky

Nicky, of course I know about the separation of the powers. You miss
the point entirely. When those people sitting in Govt write policy,
they usually have various intent in mind. Look at taxation policy
for instance. When that policy passes as law, its then challenged
by a whole pile of lawyers in the courts. With taxation, they find
all sorts of loopholes that perhaps were overlooked and the intent
of the law not resulting as was intended. The law is then changed.
Not much different in this case it seems, depending on the outcome.
That has little to do with the separation of powers, the Govt still
being accountable for the laws passed.

As to websites, I'll stick to those who are accountable for what
they have written, such as MLA, which is acountable to both Govt
and growers. Who are animal libber groups accountable to? Peta
seems accountable to nobody for instance. Other sites showing
old historical video clippings certainly do not reflect the
standards of today.

If you've looked at the plans of the two new Siba ships being built,
you'd have to concede that much is changing in the live export
trade. Even NZ is hiring their ships to cart breeding animals to
Mexico. To ignore these changes, to keep claiming that what happened
years ago, is still reality today, is simply wrong and not objective
in my opinion.

But then when we talk of objectivity, given that various veggies
have expressed clear dislike for farmers on these boards, I don't
really expect it anymore

Hi Yabby
The point about the doctrine of the separation of powers is that the judiciary MUST remain independent of influence by government.
It's funny you should talk about the standards of the ships (can you have forgotten the maiden voyage of the"Becrux"? The AMSA/AQIS Mortality Report can be found at www.liveexportshame.com. It just so happens that I have in front of me an AQIS summary of, for example, the "Maysora" voyage of October 12 2006 (not that historic) on which 3.18% of the cattle died. There was another nasty incident with the old "Maysora" in Fremantle some months earlier, wasn't there? This report also notes that a voyage from Tasmania earlier in the year recorded 1,683 sheep died of "inanition" (don't you love the euphemism for starvation?)on the ancient "Al Messilah". It appears that the exporters didn't do the right thing by the almighty Standards regarding the number of days the animals are to have in feedlots prior to loading in either case. The same applies to the other voyages in this summary report. You can't even follow your OWN standards
Standards for ships have changed slightly since January 2007; for example they must all have back electrical/ventilation systems. But AMSA has handed over the animal welfare responsiblity to AQIS, so the situation is that AQIS knows nothing about ships and AMSA knows nothing about animals. But even if these animals were being sent on the QEII, it doesn't change what happens to them when they get there. The film I have seen of Egypt is from December 2006/January 2007, AFTER the signing of two MoUs with that country, so it is hardly "historic" either.
You should really give up trying to defend the indefensible, and get over your "veggie" phobia as well. I have absolutely no problem with you wanting to have rotting animal parts in your body and risking cancers and heart disease. It's your choice. And it is naive to believe that no-one is accountable for the content on thie websites too - all websites are registered to someone.
Nicky

Nicky,
"But even if these animals were being sent on the QEII, it doesn't change what happens to them when they get there"

Thats the rub. If they don't receive Australian animals they'll process animals from other countries who may not have as stringent transportation guidelines. We can really only control welfare during transportation and now with MoU's the quarantine at the other end.
Animal welfare groups would be better rewarded by educating the processors over there, rather than stifling the trade from Australia. To my mind a sheep is a sheep no matter in which accent it baas.
The aim should be to the welfare of all animals, not just Australian ones.

Nicky, your QE2 comment kind of says it all. It doesent matter
what ship these sheep are on, you still would not be content.

I seem to recall one of your posts discussing your problem
with the blood and guts of slaughter being the problem,
it certainly is for many veggies.

However, what you are doing is basically being a nitpicking
armchair critic, rather then looking at the big picture.

Yes there have been incidents in the live trade. There have
also been incidents with motor cars killing people, with
747s and other planes crashing. So we look at the big
picture, we don't stop flying or drivng cars. We try to
find out where the problem is, try to rectify it and find
a solution.

At some point you have to question whether your emotional
buttons are simply being pushed and your response is nothing
more then a feelgood response, the outcome of which won't make
a scrap of difference. Fact is that people have been killing
animals for meat in the ME, by the millions, for thousands of
years. If you think that sending WA farmers broke might make
you feel better, great for you, but not very good for those
farmers and in reality it won't make a scrap of difference in
the ME.

I've told you before, there are options to change things in
the ME. They take notice of their religion. Signs posted in
every slaughter place, what the Koran says about being kind
to animals, would be a small, cheap effective thing that some
of the libber groups could do to make a real difference there.

They might even receive some funding from MLA for that kind
of project, if they tried. But no, it seems you'd rather
just send Aussie farmers broke, as you've offered to alternate
solutions for their lost income

Yabby Rojo Nicky Hello Everybody

Firstly Yabby

I am going off post and answering briefly from the other thread.
its clear you didnt read this.
http://www.afic.com.au/
You `keep saying` we wouldnt have a clue.

I dont mind a sensible debate with anybody - but at least READ what has `already been done.

The fact is we work cojointly with Muslim leaders. We have been meeting with overseas for years. We `totally` understand their requirements.
We know whats going on and why. Unlike yourself.

If you read some of the site you can see the enormous amount of work already done[ with MUCH MORE to be done]

Its a huge job and we could have done with a hand but the others refused.

The festivals are able to be serviced by local animals. Rodger supplies halal products. No reason others cant compete. NONE
http://www.minister.immi.gov.au/cam/media/media-releases/2006/jc06002.htm
Its clear you are either disinterested or just post the same rubbish over and over to ramble on. Possibly to upset some of the posters.

You ignore facts and quite frankly you dont even have the manners to repond to the contents of the others persons posts.

So whats the point to continue.

Go ahead send your two hundred sheep alive. I am not going to judge you. God can do that.

Rojo. Not even if they are wrapped in cotton wool on the best ships. Slaughter here, keep value adding and jobs here.

It common sense for our country.

Nicky we appluade your efforts and have often said so.

However we are also free to post our comments and points as we see them.
Animal Welfare are the most unfriendly organisations I have ever come in contact with.

That was entrenched WELL before we came along. Thats not the case at rSPCA QLD or PALE or AFIC- Just you lot.

FYI There were emails sent Australia wide to most groups warning not to deal with our organisation.

We are ALL working for for Animals. I suggest everybody drops the attitude. We respond as we are treated.

Other than that your comments are 100% correct.

Yabby and Rojo
Yabby, quite frankly, the incomes or otherwise of WA farmers is of absolutely no interest to me, but I would suggest that, as other busineses have to in changing environments, they should learn about diversification. But no, they've gone for short-term profits without thought for what they're going to do when this ends - as it will. It's a bit of a sad case, that these people have committed to these profits fully aware of how their animals are to be treated. You see, your arguments fail every time because this is about basic common decency, not economics, something WA (and other farmers) dispensed with when they got into this.
That said, I agree with you completely about signage in Middle Eastern slaughterhouses, although all the indications are that it is savages we are talking about here (wonder if they can read?). Since they profess to be so strict about their religion, they would know those requirements. BTW, how do you get away with sending them mulesed, castrated sheep without tails when their religion dictates otherwise? Perhaps they don't notice. Or perhaps they are as flexible with their religion as we have seen in recent film footage.
Rojo, the argument about Australia not sending animals to this butchery is about "raising the bar", the ideal being that if Australia (from where most are sourced) stopped providing animals on cruelty grounds it would a) send a salutory lesson that the Australian community does NOT condone the savage treatment of its animals (not only sheep), and b) SOME other countries might do the same.
Australia's Standards are really not that great, either, Rojo, the same crappy old ships are plying the trade (from which even the crews desert if you read Hansard), and the Standards only go as far as - you guessed it - the ship. If the report I have quoted above is correct (and it more likely to err on the side of the industry) the exporters cannot even conform to the Standards THEY developed for THEIR "industry".
Nicky

Nicky

Cant tell you what to write. After all that`s what we pointed out to you regarding us.

Unlike other groups we feel farmers need support instead of bagging them.

Also we had plans which we ' HAPPILY shared'.

Nobody was interested.

Then as sure as God made little green apples a few months later its 'copy cats'.

The legal action and 'much more.

God only knows 'now' plans to sell meat to ME?.

Thats best done by Muslim Leaders. BUT like we asked years ago we need help to contact Australian Farmers. Yes Please!

Interesting considering we started this programme and begged them to join us but they refused.

I am extremely interested by the head 'people requesting this funding.

I might add Dr Hugh Wirth failed to even reply after four years of invitations to meet with Muslim leaders? Instead our membership to WSPA was blocked. umm

Thats fine! Nicky except `some things` should NOT have been coppied.

Such as the investigation and Court Case.

I recall the lady arguing with me that we couldnt get live Exports into court.
So I put a Federal Police friend on the phone who explained our intentions.

Which was a major Federal Case.

Nope.

Not interested! in a NCA investigation with Federal Police and leading Australian QCs `No Way`.

Ok well I PRAY they succeed at State level.

Lyn White is fantsatic but she cant make up for others egos .

Nicky 'savages'?

Yeh sure that will work. Now every Aussie farmers off side lets piss off the Muslim people as well.

It may pay you to remember the Muslim Leaders of Australia are the ONLY ones trying to make a difference.

I dont see any Good Christian leaders doing likewise do you?

I told AA years ago if they put out adds with the Koran it will help.

If they realize its not Halal they WONT eat it.

I noticed an add from PETA for Tassi. Pity they had the best.

No Nicky WE are the Savages because AUSTRALIA sends them there.

SHAME ON THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT

"although all the indications are that it is savages we are talking about here (wonder if they can read?)."

Your attitude seems to be showing more clearly, bit by bit here Nicky!

Middle East savages, farmers apparently driven by nothing but profit, eating
meat will kill you, even the QE2 would not be acceptable as a
sheep transporter etc. etc.

You want the live trade banned because sheeps legs are tied and
their throats cut, as happens commonly in Australia.

Hey you are free to follow your extremist philosophies, just not
free to force them on the rest of us. Luckily society just
tolerates extremist groups, but takes little notice of them,
despite their loud howling

Nicky,
"quite frankly, the incomes or otherwise of WA farmers is of absolutely no interest to me"

Obviously. Just like farmers have little time for animal libbers, not because they don't care for their animals, but because of the ignorance(not necessarily stupidity) displayed in libber rants.

I guess it is too hard to educate the overseas buyers on welfare? Much easier to turn a blind eye as long as they don't use "Australian" animals.

Live exports are a form of diversification. When animal groups get around to paying farmers to allow the animals to live out their natural life on farm, farmers will listen. Anything less is pure rhetoric.

nicky, farmers couldn't buy the PR that people like you provide. Thankyou so much.

LOL! Wendy, Nicky, you guys just kill me. The truth just slowly unravels ....

Wendy, that abattior was export. If you had read all of farmonline yesterday you would have known that. It will probably just sit idle like others in QLD.

Nicky
Do you see? Do you get it now? Rojo is right of course. They dont need anything more than people bagging farmers and now Muslims in Me in general
Your doing all! the work for them.
You all have done an enourous amount of damage for the right reasons.
Boy, you dont care about WA farmers. Great Just great! Nicky Tar.

Yes we CAN slaughter here- but only if we befriend the ME people and our Farmers.

Look as far as I can see this is political the way these groups are controlled in Australia.
WHY was it agreed many years ago by these people with the Government that- they would hold the first Animal Welfare enquiry into Animal Welfare in Australia- ONLY if it was presented from that ONE point of veiw? vegetarian.
Why do YOU!! think they agreed to that?
I hold my `own` views- To always have the Animal Groups under control.
How easy then to use the media to discredit main stream groups and people. The same media that are riddled with giants involved in live exports.
All this by a person who worked in a political office before running for head of a Animal group. With the same Senator that not interested to work with other groups despite them being in his same area.
Umm Who do they give their preferences to? Oh yeh thats right Labour. Labour who helped create the mess in the first place with their give me give me more strikes until it broke the camels back and somebody said-qoute[ Stuff the unuions will will send the bastards alive.
Welcome to the world of politics Nicky and understand Live Exports are political and so are some of these groups. Problem is they never worked out they were done over like a dogs dinner. Or Did someone? You think about it Nicky. Sadly then they mislead good people in the public like yourself.
A blind eye indeed and its time those who follow these groups like sheep understand the full picture. You clearly dont.

Dear me. I am totally mystified by that message. I don't know who triggered the first animal welfare enquiry - in fact, I don't know what enquiry you mean - but as an enquiry I suspect it was government under pressure and had absolutely nothing to do with vegetarianism. I don't know what organizations/party politics this is about either, it's all a bit incoherent.
Being in NSW, I also have no idea about what representation PETA would have in Tasmania (if that's what that statement means), but since they have no representation anywhere else in Australia for legal reasons, that is another mystery.
In answer to the questions from the others, I believe that the magistrate in WA continues to "reserve her decision" at this time.
To all the howls of indignation, please read the posts a little more carefully; you will see that they really are quite qualified and do not reflect the "broad brush" to which you all seem to subscribe. My statement did not refer to Muslims as a group in its entirety, it referred to those individuals filmed slaughtering animals in the Bassetin slaughterouse in December/January (and other places in the Middle East in quite recent times), and I hold to the view that those people are indeed savages. My statement about farmers (WA or anywhere else) clearly referred to those involved in the live export trade (and other cruel practices).
PALE, you really do yourself few favours insulting and threatening anyone who disagrees with you, or does not fall in with your plans of the day - perhaps it is why you have been unable to get whatever support it was that you were seeking.
Nicky

Nicky

I am sorry you could not follow the thread. In order to do anything in life properly you require the background knowledge.

Has it ever occured to you we might be right. That politics 'might' be invovled within 'some groups.

We are not short of support either working in conjunction with RSPCA QLD and Muslim Leaders of Australia.

I will write to the co founder of Animal Liberation on the board with Peter Singer and ask her concent to post her letter. [ Very interesting]

People in ME have no training with live stock.

They dont read their minds and would laugh if you suggestd it.

The best abattoirs operate by following a beasts mind set.

Instead they attack one eye and slash tendons because they are scared of large animals.

They do it to protect themselves. Yes its barbaric no argument.

The Australian Government and the opposition are the savages. The National Party are more to blame than any other. Shame on the National Party.

As for the add sent to me 'by' PETA for Tassi its a fact.


If you really want to help stop live exports then work to find farmers to ensure supply so we can build more plants.

I hear a few high profile people in Animal Welfare are 'now requesting funds to carcass Halal Meat to ME.

Give us a break. After asking them to work together on this with us for years they are now doing as they have always done. Copying.

I want a much more `independant` system. No more saying they wont take carcuss. No more fronts and white washing reports.

People who retire often find its best left at that. Otherwise things might get too much for them.
Dont play into the industry and and media`s hands Nicky is my best advise to you.

Dont bag farmers or call the people overseas barbaric. Dont lash out at people as you have farmers and us every chance you get. Learn to listen as well as post your comments.

For The Animals.

And still I am mystified, so I can only surmise that you are referring to Animals Australia and/or Animal Liberation, and I guess Senator Bartlett (although I'm not sure what it is that he has done to incur the wrath directed at him). You do not say who you believed "copied" you and with what. I am also surmising, but are we referring to the Senate Committee for Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport, and if so, where is the vegetarian agenda, for heavens sake? It was chaired by Bill Heffernan, an ignorant bigot who is also a farmer, and treats the whole notion of animal welfare as a joke (according to Hansard extracts I have read) and included the queen of live exports, the late and unlamented Jeanne Ferris. No-one on such a committee should have a commercial interest in animals, because it is a clear conflict of interest, but if you want a certain result, of course, you stack the committee.
Labor has not been in power for 11 years, and that would have given the Coalition plenty of time to act had it been so inclined, but certainly Labor has had its share of involvement, and it is Kevin Rudd's position that he will not put a stop to it either. Julia Gillard ignores correspondence on the subject.
Regarding the PETA ad for Tasmania (? still to be clarified; what were they advertising for?) Jenna might have been interested in knowing about it, since she is down there.
Nicky

Nicky
Didnt think of Jenna great idea.
Jenna if you are interested we will supply contact. I have requested you contact us direct on several occasions.
There are some things we are not ready to go public with. Your too well informed on `some things` not to have connection.
Thats ok. Working together `is the key to success.
That last post was one of the best you have written. It was fair yet enquirying, informative polite and professional.

I am going to respond by dedicating the next few posts to answering your questions.

Your asking the right questions and you deserve to be answered.

It is not possible to cover each issue in three hundred and fifty words.

Like you I am here for the Animals and creating jobs for our regional people.

Please be patient and allow me to answer all your questions but feel free to address me on anything I have written as we go along.

Then `after I have answered all your questions by all means lash out at me if you wish.

I am going to start with Bill Heffernan but only as an example of others with conflicts of interests regarding Animal Welfare.

Hes just another one who follows the sheep.

Hes not the type to rock the boat or excel himself towards creating new projects.

NOBODY should have a conflict of interest- of course you are 100% correct.

That includes and especially media giants as well as those in Government jobs. Its outrageous.

The last time Uncle Bill called me[the only time] he was none too pleased about my letter informing him we would hold public enquires throughout each state of Australia in parks in a `pink tent`and invite off shore media and others.

We thought the pink tent was a nice touch but Bill didnt share our enthusiasm to say the least.

continued.
It did appeal however to offshore media.

Bill rushed the letter to RSPCA National for an "explanation".

I reminded him when he called we were related by marriage.

Once he realized he made a remark. It was SO 'typical.

Actually going back I left directly after that wedding despite having paid for three days accommodation.

I was so upset and angry I took a Taxi from Goulbourne to Canberra air port and sat all day waiting for a flight back to QLD.

I have never told "anybody" what I heard spoken to his brother while the bride and groom danced.

So yes I "KNOW" what he is like as a person Nicky.

As to his his position- Of course he should not have had a seat on the board of Animal Welfare.

Yes it’s stacked with conflict of interest. He’s certainly not the only one either. Look at Amanda. One can hardly think of it without a snicker. How cruel! and one of our leaders!

If Labour had good advisors they would have introduced our co-joint venture as a policy.

It’s a missed opportunity for them. Arrogance is only part of it they lack experience and skills.

At least John Howard and Peter McGauran even Mark Vaile at the time - said Sounds interesting in merit can you get us a report and then we can meet.
My point is isn’t it supposed to be the opposition who listen and the Government being arrogant.

The opposite applies in this case. I am NOT singing their praises either! in regars to Animal Welfare.

However the difference is they are smart enough to know some changes MUST be made and other ventures included. Labour are not.

They dont know a smart policy if its wrapped up in a bow to them.

Julia ignores you does she. Ask her next time why they refused to inform the public that AWB were also live Animal Exporters?

Ask her if they are elected will they make it law that all donations to political parties are disclosed? Speaking of feeding the chooks.

http://www.livexports.com/cowgun.html

continued
She can’t be worse than Senator Steve Fielding. He ignored all correspondence for years. Such Compassion from our Christian Leaders. I am SO ashamed.

Even after the QLD RSPCA CEO myself and a Catholic Minister who has lived in ME flew from QLD to Melbourne to see him. No reply.

Nicky I originally set this co joint Aussie Farmer working with ME up to direct all donations to go to RSPCA National, Animals Australia and any other sincere people.

RSPCA National have shown an 'extraordinary lack of interest' to help us push for co joint ventures to be marketed through MLA and Austrade as policy.
They denied requests or assist with meetings with Farmers Federations and AVA. Simply things that would have been easy for them and cost nothing.
Antje in particular is outraged they have refused for years to put this link up on RSPCA National site.
http://consciousevolution.com/onshu/view_signatures.php

We are very `fortunate` to have our RSPCA QLD CEO.

We wrote for years inviting Dr Hugh Wirth to attend meetings with Muslim leaders and overseas delegates.

Not even a reply to say sorry not interested. The arrogance similar to Bills.

However I hear through the grape vine he now has great interest in promoting Halal carcasses to ME?. [Of course we may have been misinformed.]

I know many Animal groups for years have told their members to vote Democrats because Labour would consider a huge amount of those votes were from public with concerns for Animal Welfare.

We are just pointing out Labour and OTHERS in Animal Welfare " HAD an oportunity" and a REASONSIBILTY and DUTY to have brought Live Exports into the spot light at the AWB enquiry.

2 Why didn’t Julia and Rudd under the obligation as opposition disclose to the public at the AWB enquiry the fact that its not just wheat ABW export but live animals.?

Continued
Given the public interest about Live Animal Exports which was documented no less then five times on 60 Minutes -I would have 'thought others besides us would have demanded the connection to AWB was made public.

We contacted the Animal Liberation head and he didn’t even know of the connection.
We contacted several others- same thing. We sent docs of proof to everybody including the Shadow Minister at the time Kevin Rudd.

Including the heads of the AWB enquiry demanding it was made known to the public.

Nobody wanted to do anything. So we sent a half a dozen strippers to stand out the front of the enquiry protesting the cruel live export trade.
As ‘Shadow Minister’ you would have thought Kevin Rudd would have jumped to inform the public.
Note Nicky we had to protest alone.

Kevin Rudd and Labour were given every opportunity and had a clear duty to not only inform the public but call for an open public Royal Commission into live Animal Exports and the funds going to Saddam. So were others- instead silence?
This is about the time Yabby will come in and say AWB with their many interests were all listed and on open public records.
They play on that. They know full well also that the average Aussie worker family person does not sit tracking through such documents. They ‘bank’ on it.

You asked about Andrew Nicky
Dont know. I dont mind Andrew. Hes certainly better than most. We supported his Senate enquiry into Animal Welfare.
We thought he along with Animals Australia Animal liberation would be happy to see for the second time a joint subs from Muslim leaders working with others.
That was a two thousand year step in the right direction.

We never heard from Andrew in regards to the sub or Animals Australia nor Animal liberation.

All that happend was our petition to Ban live Exports was ordered according to Andrews web master to be taken off his site. This one.>

http://consciousevolution.com/onshu/view_signatures.php

The sub was arranged by a Muslim Gentleman. Their first This one>
http://www.halakindmeats.com/submissions.html

Continued.
Andrew has delivered some wonderful speeches up Rockhampton areas working with other guest speakers

He has also attended one of our meetings with QLD Government AMIEU and Islamic Leaders along with RSPCA QLD regarding HKM.

I informed him of what the lady had said that he would only work with that particular group. Andrew said that was untrue.

I would be dishonest if I did not say I was disappointed that he was not a lot more helpful in regards to driving the co joint venture here in QLD.

It’s good for QLD employment and would eventually delivering jobs for QLD regional areas while improving Animal Welfare.

Our official position is we stand 100 % behind Senator Bartlett the same as Bob Brown One Nation and anybody else regarding Animal Welfare work.

Not only as Senators now but in the future with any work undertaken to improve Animal Welfare. I think Andrew especially will do something with Animal Welfare later in life.

I don’t know why Andrew took the petition off Nicky and showed no interest in the sub to his Animal Welfare Enquiry.

Perhaps you might like to ask him. I can only tell it as it is. The truth as you enquired of me.
You might also enquire of the same from Animals Australia considering they claim to be the peak organisation of Animal Welfare in Australia.

Our members were bitterly disappointed.

It would seem that perhaps the lady who told me years before hand he would only work with ‘ her’ was indeed speaking the truth...

So you now have to look into the back ground of how the whole Animal Welfare system was set up all those years ago.

Hence my comments about the agreement made between the Government and founders many years ago and in response to your question Nicky.

Our concern Nicky is the Animals. We feel unless an alternative to live exports is found its pointless campaigning against live exports. Live exports have tripled despite millions in donation given by the public to stand against it.

"If Labour had good advisors they would have introduced our co-joint venture as a policy.
It’s a missed opportunity for them. Arrogance is only part of it they lack experience and skills."

ROFL Wendy, do you really think that anyone takes you seriously?

Ah well, a bit of comedy on OLO, for those bothered to read some
of these posts, can't really do any harm I guess.

continued
There is a cult system by self appointed so called leaders of Animal Welfare in Australia who ‘claim’ to represent all.

If you are the peak Organisation of anything you have a clear duty to exchange information with 'all interested bodies and groups equally'. That would also include Senators.
Especially when our group represents the larger population that are meat eaters.
I can say in all honesty Nicky that has not been the case. Emails went out telling others not to work with pale.

People were instructed not to stand next us when our members protested against live exports in Surfers Paradise.

According to the spokes person who told channel 9 news and us together those orders came from Andrew.

I am NOT saying that was true.I am only telling you what channel 9 and pale were informed.

Its possible Andrew`s the victim here of false statements.

However we were told they were ordered not to stand next to the RSPCA Ban Live Exports Banner.

One of the people standing with us was a ‘very senior member of another group and could not believe what they saw and heard.

This message was given to us by the spokes person- ‘same lady’ whom had attended my private home our’ first meeting.’?

The same one who `kept saying` to Lindy they were not members of any other groups.

The same person who took all names and contact details at that meeting of each person called each person and later called them instructing them not to join pale and recommended another group.

All we cared about was the more people to help animals despite groups names. "That has not changed and never shall".

The first we heard about it was when preparing for our first BBQ for the people who had attended the meeting a week earlier.

One young man arrived alone and informed us nobody was attending.

He was very upset and requested we go with him in his car.

We went and he drove us past a park at Burleigh where everybody was gathering 'with that same lady'

continued
Some members were in tears after working hard preparing the BBQ.

I will ALWAYS be grateful to that young man for his honesty.


I felt grateful to have tripped over this interesting twist so early in the kick off to pale.

Just before you break in declaring how pale dare air this to the public- I remind ‘everybody’ that there was an ABC programme The Blind Eye and a five page spread in the Australian.

Many statements made by Dr Wirth and others about disunity within Animal Welfare groups.

We are simply putting up a counter argument for the ‘first time’ we have also documented this information with the Federal Government.

We support the RSPCA because they are the legal body of Animal Welfare in Australia.

We owe a great deal to our QLD RSPCA CEO

We also applauded the ABC blind Eye programme and the Australian Newspaper report.

Our stand is for Animals and everybody who works for them. “Everybody”.

Our organisation with its work with Muslim leaders applied to become members of WSPA.

"
"That was flatly rejected? Rather interesting Nicky don’t you think?"

It warrants a full investigation and outlines the need for changes to be made in Australia putting in an independent body in charge of Animal Welfare.

PETA for example refuse to speak with us?

After ignoring dozens of letters Mrs Struthmann contacted the lady in charge of live exports by telephone.

PETA hung up in her ear.

Rather interesting.

One can only ponder as to why.

Was it because we promote the slaughter of Animals in Australia and joint arrangements between Australian Farmers and overseas purchasers of meats?

Why not speak fellow animal lovers?

Considering pale work in conjunction with RSPCA QLD to bring about alternatives to live exports to improve Animal Welfare.

Remember Nicky these! Are the people some of our "Peak Animal Welfare groups are working together with?

This cult of unfriendliness that we were warned about by a high ranking Animal Welfare person most certainly DOES exist.

PALE, I don't pretend to now what the arguments are here behind this animosity, but you must remember that people always have the right to decide who they want to speak to and/or do business with. It seems that a lot of energy (on the part of PALE) is being expended on criticizing and undermining all other groups than PALE. It is all basically counter-profuctive, and none of it seems to be especially related to the "meat-eating" culture either, since all the other groups, including PETA, actively promote a carcass/chilled meat trade over live exports, and while it would be their preference (I expect) that animals not be slaughteed at all, they are all quite realistic about the possibility of that happening in the forseeable future. There seems to be much more to this than the (ENDLESS) debate about who does and doesn't eat meat. Are you referring to Glenys Oojges and/or Lyn White of Animals Australia?
All the other groups seem to be actively promoting the "welfare" perspective if animals MUST be farmed for food (such as www.savebabe.com and www.savethesheep.com)
Andrew Bartlett probably cannot be seen to publicly favour one group over another, and even if he could that is his choice also. I would think that he may not have reviewed, or contacted anyone else about their submissions to the National Animal Welfare Review either. Many other groups, I would think, saw what a sham that review had actually become, given who presided over it and who was part of it, and no doubt Senator Bartlett did too.
It isn't really clear to me what exactly, in real terms, you wanted him, or any of the other groups to do.
Your posts seem to be trying to indicate that you have all that you wanted in place, so I'm a bit mystified about exactly what it is you want from the others.
Nicky

Whats with the Nicky/Jenna thing on the above post. Has Nicky been Jenna all along? Has Jenna tried to pass herself of as Nicky? Why deny being in Tas(or NSW) if you really are one and the same.

Does this halve paleifs supporter numbers?

We need answers.
The truth would be nice too.

Jenna Hi
Contact-
AACT_now@hotmail.com or via telephone: 0408 970 359 (ask for Yvette).
No Animosity from us.
Want Co-operation.
Want farmers located... Abattoirs found. Land found.
Want people and members Australia wide -meet and greet overseas Visitors.
Want a new fairer Animal Welfare head or body so nobody can black list just ‘one group’ like PALE
Others to stop blacklisting us. Blocking our memberships. Not to set up the very thing we requested they assist with and work WITH us
.Such as Marketing of Halal Meats to ME.
Animal Liberation working with us to help establish Free Range Poultry Farms with our overseas contacts.
AA to do likewise re pigs.
All round co operation and to be included and share. Membership of WSPA
Other than that- An enquiry into the rejection of membership. Peak Organisations refusing to treat everybody equally “not expectable”... May new independent body register of Animal Welfare body?

. Lyn White. We fully support. Love her onboard at our meetings with Muslim Heads from overseas

Continued

Nicky’

Question Is?
Is this dog determined attitude not to work with us political?
Or just-
Jealousy, control, power, fund raising. Possibly all combined.

For the record PALE does not fund raise. Too busy working on projects.
Nobody draws wages including lawyers.

Last year Antje contacted a head person in ‘another attempt’ to work united regarding live exports.
A few days later Antje was informed of a ship in WA with sheep onboard broken down.

As it happened that very weekend I had the head of Halal Meats Australia `s CEO as guests with his wife and parents from India.
“Had’ we known he “would have done everything in his power to assist those sheep
It’s now clear this person was aware of the ship “at the time Antje called”.

That’s ~ precisely why` Antje called but still that person said ‘nothing about the ship stuck in WA
How would you feel about that Nicky? I think you would be as angry as we were and ‘he’ was. Antje had a few words. Resulted they cancelled MY private membership.

Rojo
I think thats a fair enough request that you made. Not that I would say Nicky had ever supported pale - or Jenna.

That in itself is rather interesting considering you would think people working for animals would naturally be united.

If you read back most of the posts you will find that most are actually anti pale.

OLO has been a perfect example of the goings on of these other groups to rubbish pale.

They just dont post in their real names as you can see.

I think you will find neither Nicky or Jenna the name of that poster.

In contrast we have always been upfront as to who we are.

From what I can see the go is to stop anybody else opening animal groups.
This seems to be far beyond Australia too.
We have been helping a little Japanese lady who wanted to do something to help stray dogs.

A well known organisation basically told her she would have to go through them
"It has familar ring to it."

To whom it may concern.
We have heard a wspa about funds been requested to sell carcass meat to ME.
Thats is best left to working with the Muslim Leaders of this country.
That of course is AFIC, HKM who have worked very hard to get things to the stage we are ready to promote this.

Again you work against us while trying to copy our work.

If you stuff the trade which ' I beleive' you will then the damage will be done forever.

As you were all invited to work with us but declined its best left to us to contiune.

This is just another example of how some work against a bunch of hard working non paid people.

There are many members of pale who dont post on OLO however have worked very hard.

We will continue to work for animals and we wont be bullied - or blocked.

Your actions and behavouir really are beyond the pale.

In my opinion, there are way too many animal welfare groups and that you would be far better off joining them instead of everyone trying to outdo one another. It seems to be far more about the 'glory' of havig the group that wins over all the other welfare groups. Too many egos are getting in the way.

By the way pale - dont see you posting your real name either, a bit hypocritical dont you think?

PF
This is is the tag Graham Young put up after the mix up some time ago.
I totally agree with you regarding you above post.

That is why we tried to join WSPA and Animals Australia.
WSPA regected our application which is interesting especially as we had taken the only step to find alternatives to live exports.
The President of WSPA at that time was Dr Hugh Wirth. Others of course had to vote as to if we would be allowed to join them.
Others such as AA. members - Regected.

Dr Hugh Wirth was contacted many times requesting a meeting with ourselves and Muslim leaders to discuss our project to help establish more plants faze out live exports. Ignored totally.
RSPCA National invited to work together- Rejected
Animals Australia were asked time and time again to meet with us. - Regected.
I joined AA personally in an attempt to show willingness to work with them- membership cancelled and others informed not to work with PALE.
Letters to PETA ignored. Antje made telephone contact- hung up in her ear.
So whats really going on behind the Vaile of Animal Welfare?
Is it political or what you are saying PF- Or both
We dont know. Nore Care anymore.
Any application made to fund carcass trade to ME by these people above will now be seen as a deliberate act of savatage of our programe and viewd most seriously.
We are still happy to work with other groups "IN THEIR NAME" and they can take FULL CREDIT.
Providing they undertake to follow our HKM programe working with our wonderful people already involved.
To make moves to undermine us- might not be Wirth

it. I just thought I ought to wspa that

PF perhaps its time for the Government to set out some clear guidelines and take control of the industry.
We are happy to work with a proper authority.