Poirot,

Both the Bushes have been responsible for Iraq, and I think Bush senior only cared about protecting his [ not so much America's] interests in Iraq, as his family had close financial ties with the Saudis through joint oil ventures.

Bush junior was an idiot who certainly gained power only through his father's influence. I don't know yet how to post links, but there are some very interesting photos on YouTube showing Junior in some of his most revealing moments while he was President.

The american forces who were ordered into the war in Iraq followed orders issued by Bush. To be sent there without knowledge of the language, religious differences, and tribal differences, was akin to sending lambs to slaughter.

The Arab muslim world use the term the Great Satan to describe America, and their hatred is directed against all Americans as a result.

In any war armed forces obey orders whether good or bad. This is their duty whether they agree or disagree with the orders handed down by their leaders. To tar a whole nation with being warmongers is unfair to all American people, when it is their leaders who are responsible. The people carry the burden financially, but have no say in how their tax money is spent.

Banjo,

You might recall that in the early fifties, Iran had a democratically elected government.....guess who aided and abetted the overthrow of it?

You won't be surprised to learn that it was Britain and the US....Oh, and they installed their own dictator puppet in the Shah.

Why did they do that, you may ask?

They did that because it looked like the Iranians were about to do the unthinkable - to legislate for a "fair" share off the profits from their major resource - oil.

Now, we can't have that, can we...those Islamic types always need to be shown the way by the superior West, usually with help of sanctions and missiles.

The US was happily dealing with Saddam during the early eighties, even when it learned that he was gassing the Iranians, they turned a blind eye.

And why do you think the Iraqi's would balk at "democracy" delivered by warhead - with the almost total destruction of that country's "advanced" infrastructure and the slaughter of thousands of innocents?

worldwatcher,

I am "not" tarring the "whole" American nation with being warmongers.

Can't someone criticise successive American administrations (being the 20th century's enduring superpower) without others assuming I somehow despise Americans/Westerners in general?

My son-in-law is American...he's a lovely level-headed man, representative of many many Americans.

My beef is with warmongering administrations...and their faux altruism that is serially passed off as "delivering democracy" via slaughter and destabilisation.

...especially when it is delivered under the auspices of a "president" who would be hard-pushed to run a hotdog stand.

Unbelievable!.....(although perhaps I "misunderestimate him" ")

WmTrevor “collective punishment”

Who's being “punished”?
It's common sense *preventative* measures.
Muslims are “punished” by living in their own homelands? Well then, maybe they need to improve their own societies.

Paul1405, why is it the atheists (I presume you are one with your “hogwash” comment) on OLO are the frontline troops for Muslims? It's bizarre!
If religion is such nonsense, why encourage it?
Virtually the only religions growing in Australia are those introduced by Asians.

“What is the point?”
Not that there are “good” people.

Point: They are not us and don't want to be us, and we never wanted them.
This demographic change was imposed on us.

We are entitled to our own ethnicity, history, culture, homeland (yes, it's *our* homeland now).
And it's being destroyed, ever so gradually, but destroyed nevertheless.

If this happened to any people who aren't White, you'd screech in horror.
When it's Whites, whatever, shrug.
It is indefensible.

Lexi, thanks for the lesson in anger management or whatever it was.

“However it does not really reflect the mainstream communities.”

I don't really care for “mainstream” alien cultures either.
Islam has no historical relationship to our civilisation, other than as an invader/overlord.
No thanks. I want my bohemian-decadent liberty.
I want a society and people I can understand and recognise, even if I'm an “outsider”.
I have nowhere else to go!

If my mind was any more open, my brain would fall out of my skull.
It is not open to bull though, in religion or politics.

Dear Shockadelic,

You're welcome!

Don't give up. You'll get there if you really try.

Good Luck!

Poirot,

You took my general comment personally, which wasn't my intention. I apologise for not being more careful with my wording.

You clarified what I should have said by using the term warmongering administrations. And in this you are quite correct.

However, when referring to Americans, many people think quite incorrectly that they support their leader's decision, and as the 3 american members of my family try to explain to people, most americans are equally against their administrations committing their own people to war, and realise the cost to themselves of the U.S. now being the only world superpower.

Afghanistan proved to the Russians[ administration] that it could not win the war it ininiated there.

America and it's allies took a beating in Vietnam and Afghanistan, and we've lost some of our valuable youth there too. Such a waste of young lives. And what has it achieved apart from that?

An analogy would be a boxing match. Even the socalled winners are really losers too. As well as hurting their opponent, they themselves are hurt in the process. Only difference is - on a one to one basis there is no 'collateral damage'.