Dear Belly,

No one is trying to stop you from having any rights,
and especially the right of the freedom of speech
that you're talking about. This is afterall a
discussion, and you should be prepared to hear
views that don't agree with yours. That doesn't mean
that someone is trying to stop you from having your
point of view. It means that people are merely
presenting their views on the subject - and if they
happen to disagree with your views - that should be
fair enough.

Belly, the vast majority of Australians are descendants
of immigrants, yet some people often act as though today's
immigrants don't deserve what they do, that they have
something to protect from their encroachment. It seems
paradoxical to me that people can brag about their
ancestors coming over by boats, yet condemn people
trying to do the same thing today.

Of course there are immigrants who abuse our system,
just as there are people born here who abuse our system.
However the truth is that the majority of today's
immigrants bring with them an infusion of the same
values that our ancestors personified. Most of them are
people willing to work hard for long hours to make a
better life for themselves and their families.

Our children don't stand to be corrputed by their values,
so much as their children stand to be corrupted by ours.

The scapegoating of today's immigrants makes a mockery of
what Australia stands for. It is a national immorality
when we collectively say no to compassion.

The history of the world proves that where the haves do not
share with the have-nots, the have-nots always rise up.
We who are the descendants of those who had not, yet who
rose up to new life for themselves and their children,
must now recognise our challenges and responsibilities.
We must do unto others as we would have others do unto us.
That is morality - that is integrity - that is what a fair
go is all about

Paul
, Okay Runner if you want to hold those beliefs that's fine by me. Are you one of those Christians who believe the Earth is flat '

Actually that belief is very similar as those who believe the impossible probably that the world happened by chance. Only those choosing total ignorance could believe that fairytale. Now that is fantasy. Also, as for popes they have told as many lies as the likes of Hitchens and Dawkins. I suggest you listen to the only Man who never lied. He certainly spoke of heaven and hell.

Poirot “It's actually quite staggering, the lengths to which you have gone to inspire division and antipathy toward Muslims.”

Belly doesn't have to do anything. The Muslims are doing a fine job of inspiring division and antipathy themselves.

“Some people are convinced homosexuals are the problem, while others think single mothers are the problem”

Oh cute comparison, Lexi.
Is Darlinghurst a no-go zone for heterosexuals?
Is the Single Mother Underground hijacking planes?

People's concerns about Muslims are based on very serious dangers, real destructive events.
“Blame” is very apt indeed.

“Where people are not free to disagree, there can be no democracy”

Maybe that's why it's so rare in the Islamic world.

“The tendency on people's parts to think that their way is the right way and that people who disagree with them are 'bad,' simply has to change.”

Hello, Muslim world again.

Everything you throw at “bigots” is present and accounted for in the Islamic world.
Yet you want to bring that world into ours.
And still expect our world to be liberal and democratic. Good luck!

Paul1405 “how many Muslims you actually know, would the answer be none.”

Oh, so a handful of local individuals is a suitable basis for judgment.
But not the handful of mass-murdering terrorists on the news.

“Your knowledge of their holy book The Koran... most likely never read a word of”

Have you? I have, and never want to repeat the experience!

Anyone who's read it (and isn't a convert) would be as horrified as they would by Mein Kampf.

This is no “love, forgiveness, go-with-the-flow-baby".
It is “hate speech”. It is “incitement to violence”. It is “Lower the globe!”

It all the ugly things “liberals” supposedly want to eradicate from the world.
Yet when it comes wrapped in the pretty packaging of “cultural diversity”, that's OK then!

Just dropping back onto this thread for a moment:

Belly,

Might I point out that you have done nothing "but" express your views up and down this thread.

You appear to think that you can express them, but it's not okay for others to post opposing argument - and if they do, then they are somehow "stopping your freedom to express your views".

You've spent around 40 posts on this thread alone "exercising your freedom to express your views". Amongst your generally anti-Muslim tirade, you've cast aspersions left right and centre in the direction of your fellow posters...and woe betide if someone actually pulls you up with a critique of your own views...apparently then that is "bitter and twisted".

So don't falsely claim you are being stopped from expressing yourself.....and you're still shouting at us.

I don't think I'm getting the hang of this collective punishment business…

Are there any limits or exemptions?

For example, do allegations against HSU executives mean that I'm supposed to now hate all union members? Or only union organisers past and present? Or only ones in health services? Or only all union members in New South Wales? But that might let off the hook, unionists in other states who are guilty of things I don't know about yet.

Of course, everyone who runs or works for a bank or other financial institution is guilty of some malfeasance – though not always guilty of making a profit. So they should be collectively punished. Even though the tellers at my local branch have always been really helpful… I hope they find my feeling sorry for them sufficient if they end up unemployed or deported.

I could go on naming groups – but you get the point.

Somehow, there are always exceptions… Except for the Irish who should be held collectively responsible and punished for James Joyce's Ulysses.

Shockadelic, my post was aimed at Belly, but thanks for your input. Belly is unlikely to reply. This is not about the good or bad aspects of Islam, I do not support any organised religion, Christian, Islamic whatever, they are all based on superstition and falsehoods, teaching ignorance to gullible people who swallow their hogwash. The world would be a better place if they all vanished, that's my view on the subject.
WmTrevor pretty well sums up what I think.
Yes my Muslim friends are important to me, Shockadelic you say "Oh, so a handful of local individuals is a suitable basis for judgment." Yes I would defend my friends right to be (good) Australians. I am not going to judge all by the actions of a "handful of mass-murdering terrorists on the news" not when I personally know good people who happen to be Muslim, as I know good people who happen to be Christians, as I know good people who happen to have brown eyes, what is the point?