Dear Danielle,

Thank you for the conversation. It has afforded me a chance to work through and solidify my thoughts on the issue. Sometimes that is the best each of us can hope for.

Cheers.

Loudmouth/Joe we inhabit different sides of the fence.
Yet my trip started just about as left asyou can go.
I still wounder what took me there, hunger and lack of opertunity was it I think.
I like to think the new left is about a hair width from the center, at least that is my home.
Not sure poirot is much further from that.
But understand in general, and agree, with your comments.
See I found my days in the real left built on lies.
And left because I truly believed in equality and many of the things they used like a ladder but did not, in the end, believe in.
Todays true left has a virus, like the greens, hidden within are many things many thoughts, but untruths still drive them.
True left idealist would still want an end to the slave like existence of woman in the Muslim world.
Those Bra burning Feminists of my youth would want the Burka and other dress on the fire.
Some of todays left? holding hands with any anti western group,just to look active,would forget to take the Bra off before burning it.
Do not look for an evolving left,that once was the greens, true left must shout to be heard, its numbers are few.
Greens? thankfully have a plan,to dig their own grave, it is working.
You are aware, as am I , lost groups form bigger but still lost groups.
Strange bedfellows but in the end?
New left is going to refuse them entry.

csteel & poirot, just because someone disagrees with your ideology does not make it a personal affront. I disagree with your ideology. I have nothing personal against either of you personally.

I know that turning everything into a personal issue is particularly specific to women if they are disagreed with, however that may only be the case in female to female conversation not male to female.

poirot: Or is it okay for whole peoples to walk five paces behind with eyes cast down deferring to their more "Enlightened" brethren?

And this is the subject of this 89 page thread.

Do what ever floats their boat over there, BUT THIS IS AUSTRALIA and this custom should be left at the door when they arrive, along with any baggage they may wish to bring with them.

I think it's time re had a serious rethink about immigration, as multi cultuarisim has been a failed experiment in most other places, so why should we wait to find out the hard way.

Let's face it, they (Muslims) come here, they don't like our rules, in fact, many don't like us abiding by our own rules, they take our handouts, then many of them have not respect for us, even hatred, albeit just a small percentage.

Now given some of those who hate us were born here, just goes to show the religion is the problem, moreso than the people.

We can keep kidding ourselves as much as we like, but this experiment will never be without serious consequences.

Call me racist by all means, but I don't hate Muslims, I simply hate what their beliefs bring to our country,as we are a peace loving country, happy to welcome anyone who respects us for what we are, but unfortunately this is one race that simply can't control the violence within.

That's why I say they should either toe the line, or leave.

After all, I am not asking them to stop following their religion, I am simply asking that they don't follow it here.

Is it too much to ask that we keep our great peace loving nation free from radical extremism for us and our generations to follow.

Jayb,

"csteel & poirot, just because someone disagrees with your ideology does not make it a personal affront...I know that turning everything into a personal issue is particularly specific to women..."

For a start...csteele is "not" a woman - although he does display particularly level-headed argument (which is probably why he's taken for a lady : )

Secondly, my beef about a certain poster tottering around OLO with a curious penchant to bait me was not related to the subject matter of this thread...and has nothing to do with my gender per se.

This is the type of Country some people think is fine for Australia to become.

Children killed as policeman father refuses to quit

Date October 8, 2012 -

Two schoolchildren, including a nine-year-old girl, have been shot dead by militants in Afghanistan after their father refused to quit his job as a policeman, officials say.

Henna and her 16-year-old brother Zelgai were killed by two gunmen on motorcycles late on Saturday while in their father's car in the Edgah area of Ghazni province, in the south of the country.

"They were playing inside my car, and the Taliban maybe thought it was me in the car. They opened fire at the car and killed my children," the father, Zalmai, who uses just one name, said on Sunday.

He said the Taliban had warned him several times in the past that his family would be at risk if he did not leave his job.

"The children were killed by Taliban because their father is a policeman working for Ghazni's municipality," provincial spokesman Fazil Sabawoon said, blaming hardline Islamist insurgents for the attack.

"They had warned him to leave his job as police and join them," he added.

A witness, Hamidullah, said two gunmen on motorcycles opened fire at the vehicle the children were in and fled the area.

Can't have been Mislims. They are a peace loving people.