Hi C. Steele,

You make an interesting comment which has already garnered some comment:

"So a riot by some idiots in Sydney is more egregious than the assassination/murder of an Australian politician and the contract killing of a drugs campaigner?"

First, they weren't idiots, they were possibly dedicated ideologues. And yes, you're right, throwing bottles at police and beating them with poles is not up there with murdering anti-drugs campaigners or Australian politicians. But then again, nobody is calling for those 'idiots' as you call them to be jailed for twenty years or so.

But credit where credit's due: as Yabby points out, this is a different order of incident, a forerunner of, I suspect, a lot more to come in demands for recognition of shari'a, differential laws for Muslims, especially for Muslim women, and [secular] state-funding of mosques, madrassas, Muslim schools with Islamic curricula, etc.

What we have in Australia should not be belittled; as an ongoing product of the Enlightenment, of union struggles, and equal rights campaigns for women and Indigenous people, we have achieved a level of equality, freedom of expression, opportunity, open society, and the other bits and pieces which make us Australian which we should be careful to guard and defend.

As far as I am concerned, wand without being too dramtaic about it, we are witnessing the shaping up of an ideological battle between Enlightenment values and pre-medieval, Islamist values. And it is by no means certain which will win. Perhaps it's a new form of'Left' and 'Right'.

Yabby's point should be argued and debated: this silly little 'riot' was an expression of an ideology which goes beyond the very broad and loose bounds of Australian ideology. Discuss.

Cheers,

Joe

csteel: I had one of my sites hacked the other day.

You have sites? Can I have a look at them please.

Talking about sites. A little time back I found a Muslim site that explained to Muslims how to answer questions & accusations. Politicians in Australia must also read the same site. It explained how to talk around the question & blame it all on the values of the unbelievers. It was all very detailed. I watching those Utube Videos of Radical Muslim Clerics being interviewed on TV & it was the exact same formula that they followed. Much like our Politicians do also.

Someone asks a question. Talk about everything else but the question, denigrate the other view. Do everything but answer the question. Then tell everyone that you have answered the question. See I do watch "insight." Now csteel, I have noticed that you, also, seem to use that exact same formular.

Now csteel I have asked you before & you have played the above game.

Are you a Muslim?

Please dispense with the above scenario & answer the question directly, Yes or No.

jayb you have described the very reason I compare an ak47 to Muslim lies.
No way around it, it is part of the invasive culture to LIE.
Avoid truth.
Try to take us back to the middle ages, using our freedoms to do it.

Dear Yabby,

The same scared little men where at it back then, saying the same things, bellowing the same overhyped warnings about Calabrian mobsters buying our politicians or Triad gangs assassinating all who stood up to them.

The same types got themselves into a lather about post war Jewish migration into this country. Little has changed. This later lot are even saying Muslim fundamentalism is the greatest thread to our way of life this country has ever faced. Never mind the Japanese on our door step or the Cuban missile crisis.

And for some reason these scared little (invariably) men are middle aged or older.

All one can hope for is they one day find a way to grow a backbone though I'm not holding my breath.

csteele,

What do you think of this comment by Baden-Württemberg's Integration Minister, Bilkay Öney, a Muslim, who stated:

"Islam tolerates no criticism."

She also said it was easier to dialogue with Muslims in Germany because they are relatively well educated.

"In other parts of the world," she said, "some take to the streets and set fire to embassies."

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3379/muslim-riots-europe

Danielle you are a breath of fresh air.
I have watched your posts and that is the truth.
I know it is not worth breaking a rule both I and another poster made.
But it is both insulting and frustrating to see the age bias flung around, along side the view if you do no think like them your thoughts do not matter.
As charming as a sidewalk pizza out side a pub on Sunday morning.
My work life started full time at 13 years of age.
In a Sydney suburb day one I meet my first Italian, within a week Greek.
Maltese followed Yugoslavian, German, I learned and grew up because of them.
Stayed 18 months in Sydney, then went bush, cane cutting corners by hand train of siding then driving, what ever I did I did with Migrates.
SOME showed me how to eat, every one showed me something.
As my self education got rolling, my HUNGER TO READ AND LEARN they too, mainly wonderful Italians, showed me what to read.
I remain what I always have been, a matey but some what in-ward looking person.
And ALWAYS seek out the orphan, the lonely the neglected.
My attempts to reach out to SOME MUSLIMS have unleashed pure hate.
I will remain forever aware not all are like that.
BUT TOO MANY ARE.
And that a holly book that preaches separation is the reason.
A great day will come, maybe post a war, not one won by Islam, when we can be one.
Without Gods we already would be.