<< See my thoughts re your small Australia policy, even if I support it,and I do, finds trouble in my understanding voters do not, yet agree. >>

Belly, this appears to be our main point of disagreement.

I think that the Australian populace is well and truly ready for a party that comes out and espouses the achievement of a sustainable society as their fundamental platform.

This message, and that of a stable population, has come of age. Just look at the amount of support Dick Smith has received, and Kelvin Thomson, and in deed Bob Carr. There is also Ian Lowe, head of the Australian Conservation Foundation, John Coulter, former leader of the Democrats and quite a few others who are saying much the same thing. Then there is David Attenborough as the most influential non-Australian who has added a lot of clout to the arguments.

The media love this stuff these days. No longer is it taboo subject matter.

So if Labor was to get stuck into pushing the message which, in line with views of Sustainable Population Australia, ACF and various other organisations, and if it was to come from the two very knowledgeable and long-standing advocates of this stuff that it has within its ranks, then how could they lose??

They certainly wouldn’t do worse than they currently are. And they would surely do vastly better.

I reckon most voters would agree, once they understood that Labor was being genuine, was in line with other organisations that have been espousing this stuff for a long time, and was not going to be run off the rails by big business or mad continuous-growth-pushing pseudoeconomists!

That might take a while, as the level of trust for politicians and their parties is in a state of quite severe damage. But in time, it can be repaired. Certainly in time for the following election in 2017.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/joke-awaits-new-punchline-20120817-24du5.html
The link amuses me, it also amazes and concerns me.
It too supports a view I have been talking about for two years.
It highlights failure, on both sides.
Ludwig in excepting this state of affairs, and the hollow charges thrown across the floor, we find a shallowness in us.
I give great value to your thoughts,but warn, we saw great support for acting on climate change in 2007, turn to mud.
Your plan, logical, full of Merritt, and in fact needed, has costs.
Those now trying to get here, will still want to come, our birth rate,as the worlds, is not yet under control.
We trade as one world,are addicted to that trade, overseas investors and our own,want only growth.
As your plan, my plan, was implemented, and worked, soon even more would wish to come just for the lifestyle!

From Hartcher’s article:

< Tony Abbott would thrash around for a winning cause if he didn't have Julia Gillard on the other side of the stage. >

Maybe. Or maybe Labor is in such a muddle that no leader would make much difference until they change their basic policy platform.

<< Your plan, logical, full of Merritt, and in fact needed, has costs. >>

Sure there will be costs, and complications. But they are nowhere near as big as those we WILL incur if we don’t stop this utter madness of expanding the demand for everything while at the same time our ability to provide energy, food and all manner of other stuff is becoming more and more tested.

Our birthrate IS under control, and would be more-so if we got rid of the despicable baby bonus!

Yes people will want to come here even more so if we are successful in developing a sustainable society with a high quality of life. But that’s nothing new. Millions want to come here now.

Yes there will be pressure to trade in ways that are not good for us, via multinationals and the trend towards globalisation. But with good governance, we CAN make trade work best for us.

This is a key point to the success of a sustainable society – government being able to make itself independent of the vested-interest pressure exerted by big business. We won’t be able to head for a stable society if we can’t achieve this. And if we can achieve this, then trade pressures that would take us away from sustainability would be under control as well.

Some times Ludwig in our politically correct world speaking the truth can lead to charges of racism, so be it.
Our birth rate is not under control.
Yes the baby bonus is insanity, but its removal changes little.
People who come for a new life from the middle east and other Muslim country's have many more Children.
America, nothing racist about it, will in 30 years be more Latino than WASP.
Birth control must be equality, same law/rule for every one.
Remember I am CONVINCED most are uninterested in your plan, for now, first in my view sustainable growth for the whole world.
Now I NEVER will support you idea of My party's near death.
I still want the filth to give control and leadership back to my people.
But find Godwin Greachs piece in yesterdays press.
Read this man who lied in the Ute gate view of my country.
I first thought it was Bolt then Piers Ackerman, maybe Alan Jones, but no this low teller of untruths yesterday showed me.
Just how very low the other side of politics has sunk.

Albert Einstein said this.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and again and getting it wrong every time.
Some think like that.
Bit in ward looking tonight, had a look at the threads I find interesting.
And fully aware my harsh views on my own party are wearying those who vote as I do.
But I tend to remember the promise of that night in 2007.
And sadly, to see in my mind the sadness of one yet to come in 2013.
I too see not totally failure from Labor, quite the reverse.
OH yes cash for clunkers,public servants sending that $900 to the dead and those who long ago left to live in other country's.
I think we have proved we are *the only party of true reform*
But that the actions,hidden and exposed, in axing Rudd, propping up Gillard defame my party.
So like the kids asking are we there yet?
I must continue being a pain, my future party, the one after Gillard,demands I chant is she gone yet?
Till that wonderful day my party can Begin to grow again.
If I was to die tonight my final words would be*is she gone yet*

<< People who come for a new life from the middle east and other Muslim country's have many more Children. >>

They have more children in their countries of origin, Belly, but does this trend continue for those who move to Australia?

Do you have any stats on this?

<< If I was to die tonight my final words would be*is she gone yet* >>

Whether Gillard is PM or not really is not the major point. Not by a long way. She could be gone and Rudd or Shorten or Swan or Bowen or Albanese or anyone of thirty-odd others could be the new leader….and Labor would get precisely nowhere…..unless the change is accompanied by some pretty profound policy shifts.

So if you are planning on dying in the near future, just before you do, ask instead: ‘has my party mended its policy platform yet?’