Ludwig in asking that question you uncover my greatest fear.
I firmly, think our country deserves better than our two leaders.
And that my party, damaged not by policy failure but internal bickering, deserves much better than Gillard.
I truly, see the leadership bobbing up and down as one then the other, is marginally worse than the other.
I FEAR my party will mistake Abbott's impending fall, as a Gillard rise.
Does that explain it?
Great hurt has been inflicted on those who worked so hard to remove Howard.
No sweeping that under the carpet, had Gillard, just once, said gee I got it wrong!
Like the Fonz in that TV show she can not.
If asked, I would state clearly no reform is possible for my party until Gillard is gone.
Post an election loss the post Morton will be saying the things I have been.
I fear too my predictions of change for both leaders may be nearer Christmas.
WEIRD? yes but poor polling is best right now for my party's well being.

<< I firmly, think our country deserves better than our two leaders. >>

By crikey yes!!

We deserve better than those two parties…. unless they change…evolve….adapt to the new world reality…embrace a sustainable society.

If one changes and is successful, the other will move in the same direction as well.

But the Libs have got no reason to do so, because they are set to win the next election as they are.

Now wouldn’t it be great if Labor realised their predicament, saw the hopelessness in continuing with Gdillard or re-erecting Rdudd or installing Shortarse … er um… Shorten and had heard through the grapevine that Ludwig over there on OLO has been espousing the perfect solution to all their woes!

And then they did it! By Christmas. Put Carr in as leader with Thomson as his deputy, or vice-versa.

Then they’d be set…. and the Libs would be all at sea!!

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/liberal-ministers-on-preselection-hit-list-20120816-24bje.html
My link in my view, is evidence the libs are far from perfect.
Ludwig you bring a grin to my face often.
Yesterday was about 60 hours long for me.
Had car in for repairs and a long way from home.
So had to spend 8 hours waiting for it.
Old mates/union members and ALP members found me.
Seems the party forgets us, or is hiding the truth from us.
Very clear Gillard has lost base support.
But is she, or others, threatening to walk away if her head rolls?
REFORM in both party's must come!
My link seems to show SOME Liberals rushing to become Conservatives.
And evidence seems to show reform no longer an ALP consideration.
Yet every chance exists, both party's will be forced to reform.
Or face the flaking off of such as the dead Democrats and lost greens as the base flee being used .

<< REFORM in both party's must come! >>

Absolutely!

And it is about time people started thinking long and hard about what those reforms should be, instead of concentrating on who should be leader.

You see Belly, what I am proposing surely deserves a great deal of consideration, and if people don’t like it, then alternatives should be put up. But instead what I’m seeing on OLO is pretty rank disinterest in policy development, and a whole lot of debate about the personalities, presentation and perceived (or real) falsehoods uttered by both leaders.

This is not what we need as a country and not what either major party needs.

<< Yet every chance exists, both party's will be forced to reform. >>

Well I would think that right now Labor should be feeling a great compulsion to reform. The current situation of them going down big-time at the next election should surely force them into major reform.

Ludwig reform is no new thought for me.
I in fact have called for it for over half my life.
See my thoughts re your small Australia policy, even if I support it,and I do, finds trouble in my understanding voters do not, yet agree.
So we do not talk reform? well many pro and con any party posts knowing or not, are calls for reform.
At my birth this country had a Liberal party about to Begin 23 years of power.
A very different party the Carry's that name today.
It too had a Labor party, as it always has been with many different views.
From out right Communist, Socialist, certainly few, who would understand todays party, occupying the once Liberal territory.
Yet leaders matter.
Right now, believe me,some men will not vote for Gillard, SOME will not vote for the soon to be replaced Abbott, yet in both cases usually vote only for that party.
Reform?
Let others concern them selves with the tea party/Conservative/Liberals and their cattle dog the Nationals.
Labor learning from the boat refugees , should review all Social welfare, lets not pretend no waste exists.
Stop privatizations and put contracted management not public servants in to state[as they win them back] and federal utilities.
Give the out door work to those in the surrounding towns.
Review all public service jobs, restore and demand accountability and work outcomes duly measured.
End union domination of the party,if they want to control let them go to meetings.
Open the meetings, to other than branch owners.
Two meetings in every branch, to be open forum every year, let out siders tell us what they want think.
Over all in my view we need to remember true believers never elect government it is those opposite we need to get to win.
And reform constantly so, is a must .

Well the cat is out of my bag,I do not think the ALP is dead and not dying either.
My complaints,at some time in the future, will be seen as an expression of unhappiness as the machine trys to slow change and remove the memberships struggle to be heard.
But it will be so.
Nothing can stall change once this few, lead the party over the cliff.
And that may have already taken place.
I have faith in the young, those half my age and those not yet a third of the way there.
I taunt, openly and with passion, Lawyers and the suits.
But too know we need some.
We too need ordinary working class men and women, but picked, both sex's, on ability not sex.
Look to our left,see the greens, a party dieing under the weight of the wrong women for the job.
See the wasted Senate power, a power that will be fleeting, at its peak now, wasted in not giving in order to take.
More refugees for giving,now lost on a sinking Island of their own making.
Greens, like the ALP and Liberals with National Fido following loyally behind,all should get closer and learn from voters.