Answers exist to the question this thread asks.
Why Rechtub has taken a aim at yabby baffles me.
And why he thinks every one,no matter how remote from this matter should be sacked too.
I understand almost every poster here knows, this is another country.
And that we do not control its laws or culture.
I am very much opposed to others inflicting their culture, on me in my country.
Yes it was bad, but who truly knew.
It will be fixed probably has as a result of this event being shown in our homes.
But considered comment should not look at other country's as other than what they are free independent nations.

Crackcup
If we put aside the personal argument all we have is this:
" I will NOT desist from trying to obtain a better
deal for those unfortunate animals".

Because no-one's suggesting that you shouldn't try to obtain a better deal.

So, personal insult and a red herring. Is that the best you can do.

The issue is why you don't obtain a better deal with your money and from everyone who agrees with you.

Therefore it's not about animal welfare. If it was, you'd simply put your money where your mouth is. It's about power. You are merely having a power trip and an ego trip, and then when this is pointed out, trying to dodge off into irrelevance.

Have you paid for the slaughter facilities to relieve those animals suffering yet?

Then admit you're a hypocrite.

And please answer my question: should everything I disagree with be illegal?

I don't agree that Rechtub is 'taking aim' at yabby. They both are expressing a different approach to solving a problem and i have put a different opinion again.

Rechtub, I would only sack those if it was lack of effort that has prevented changes. It may wel not be, as the big hurdle is religion and culture and these are formidable obstacles. This is why I suggest the purchass/building of killing works in Indonesia just so we bypass those obstacles and are totally in control of the operation.

Halal slaughter can be done humanely if we have control.

Certainly look at the training and analize why such limited progress has been made. Maybe some heads need to roll and/or different methods of training but we have to ensure that our standards are met.

The ammount of trade is worth the investment and the effort.

Belly, I can't see where Rehctub had a go at me lol. Perhaps you
confused his copy and paste of my quote at the top, as being his.
That was actually me having a go and Crackup, earlier.

I heard an interesting interview with an old fella from the North,
who knows all about the industry up there. He reckons that the live
trade had nothing to do with works closing. Their main problem up
there is the wet. In the wet, you won't move trucks too far, so
meatworks can really only operate 6 months of the year at best.

Now every meatworks needs some good staff, but if you can only offer
a bloke 6 months work a year, he's not likely to stick around.
So it was extremely difficult to staff these places each year starting
afresh, nobody made any money and one by one they closed.

Today, with the competition from the mining industry all through the
north, it would be far worse. AACo are looking at building a new
works in Darwin, but there are many doubters about wether it will
be profitable.

Banjo, you will find that some of the feedlots in Indonesia have
Australian involvement, they are quite professional operations.
So the thinking is that they can play a role in who to sell cattle
to. No stun guns - no sale. But what really needs to happen is
for our Mr Ludwig to sit down with his Indonesian counterpart
and come up with a working solution which is win win all round,
especially for the cattle. Some good can come out of all of this,
if we think things through and don't just follow the kneejerk
reactions of those less informed about the whole situation.
As always, the devil lies in the details

Yabby,
I understood,from the doco, that there are indeed some abbitoirs using stunguns in Indonesia and there is no reason that supply to those works should not continue, if they comply to our standards.

In other works it is clear that our standards are not met and we should discontinue supplying stock to them untill we are satisfied our standards are met. After 10 years that does not seem likely so we either buy them out and modify and run to our standards or we construct abbitoirs which we run to our standards.

We simply cannot continue to send cattle to abbitoirs where stunning does not take place. Whether or not our cattle are on sold, we have to ensure that the cattle are treated humanely.

I am also aware, from the doco, that Aus interests own and operate feedlots there.

*and we should discontinue supplying stock to them untill we are satisfied our standards are met. After 10 years that does not seem likely*

It ain't that simple Banjo, for don't forget, its us changing the
rules, as we go along. Australia installed those original boxes,
as shown. Australians taught them how to use them. The concept
of using stun guns in Indonesia is a recent one. MLA was in the
process of going there, but their funding is limited by grower levies.

I have many times suggested that Animals Australia, who have some
seriously rich benefactors, should join in with MLA to improve
animal welfare in the third world. They generally refuse to, for
most of them are vegans or similar. So they just want to shut the
trade down at any cost. Yet when they put a bit of effort in, as
in Jordan, they made quite a difference. They approached the Queen
of Jordan and within a short time old works were being shut
and new works, including stun guns were built.

AA have played cat and mouse with MLA for years, only normaly their
little spy goes to the ME, so MLA have perhaps focussed on that
and they certainly have achieved some results over the years.
Slaughter is one part, great progress has been made in terms of
ships, handling, feedlots at the other end etc.

If Animals Australia, the Australain Govt or anyone else wants to
make a difference, they are free to make a financial contribution to
speed things up. Most of the bill over the years, has been paid
by farmers, not those now screaming loudest