Danielle, for the meat to be halal, the heart needs to be pumping.
That is why much halal meat is produced in Australia, using stun
guns. But meat is not halal, if the animal has watched other
animals be slaughtered and is stressed. By strict Islamic procedure
it should be condemed, but in the real world of course that won't
happen. What you actually have in Indonesia is lots of little
places, some killing 5 cows a day. But there really is no supervising
authority, as we have here. The thing is, people have been killing
cattle for thousands of years in Indonesia using what they have.
I don't think it is beyond us, as part of our already generous
foreign aid programme, to buy them stun guns, as most of them
simply can't afford them.

Rehctub, I think you will find that the large feedlots, with lots
to lose, will channel their cattle through a few major meatworks,
where modern and humane methods are used. Some have already
converted. So the good news story of all of this is IMHO it will
bring about long needed change, which was harder to implement
beforehand.

Alot of those stations are already running right on the edge, due
to huge operating costs. If they had to truck their cattle south,
only to be paid hamburger price for the meat, they would soon go
completely broke and you'd have hundreds of thousands of wild
cattle roaming the North.

Yabby,

Thank you. This is what I thought about Halal killing - that it was intended to be humane.
I wonder why no Muslim has entered this debate.

As a society, Indonesians are proficient at using 21st century western technology. Thus, as a society, they are just as capable of understanding animal cruelty. Therefore it is encumbent upon their society to do something about this situation.

I find it very difficult to believe that Indonesians have no comprehension of pain/suffering to animals. (Incidentally, I lived in Malaysia for seven years). Certainly, the Indonesian government is extremely embarrassed. To excuse Indonesians for not understanding animal cruelty, is to attribute to them a collective psychological pathology.

Peasant societies may not be sentimental towards their animals, but they care for them - they cannot afford not to.

Danielle, there are lots of questions about this debate, which
remain unanswered. People who work in meatworks, are a strange
breed at the best of times. With cattle, its very often fear
that is the problem. Australian cattle are alot larger then
traditional Indonesian cattle.

What I find interesting is that other people who have visited these
works, have seen nothing like what was documented. So why the
difference? Are these blokes, in their primitive way, trying
to impress a white Western female with their macho tactics?
Something is odd about all this.

I heard today on the radio that Getup, along with the RSPCA and
Animals Australia, are going to fund a large tv advertising
campaing to end the trade. They haven't even thought through the
implications of that. All that money could be used to install some
decent stunning equipment, so that animal welfare improves in
Indonesia and they have the gear that they require. Millions
of animals would benefit. Now its going to be our local tv
stations cashing in. It makes no sense to me at all

Live export of cattle on those 'cruise' ships is, of itself, cruel.
Just imagine the terror that is endured by the animals in a heavy sea or in a storm.

The animals on the top deck are going through the biggest arc(the closer to the water the less the roll), repeatedly, for hours or days on end as well as the forward up and down motion. The mind boggles at what they must suffer; I wonder do cattle get sea-sick?

My concerns have grown as this issue develops, first from a past that saw jobs as easy to get for honest work as leaves from a tree I have had many.
My first city job was visiting half the butcher shops in Sydney once or twice a week to pick up fat bone and waste.
To be turned in to meat meal for export mainly.
We picked up at Sydney's then Hombush bay Abattoirs twice a week.
I eventually worked there.
And both before and after saw country Abattoirs in working time.
Animal death is cruel, always,sheep stand in line know their fate cattle too.
This film was awful, some, highly critiqued was quite normal,dead cattle laying in their own skins.
We, every one of us, should be appalled at what is wrong but understand some is purely emotional.
But that film that publicity has forced reactions.
PLEASE do not refer to that country as primitive, it is not our right to judge them, as it is not theirs to judge us.
We, not just as a result of this, long ago started to fund and educate these folk for better out comes.
Indonesia is on its way, a long journey, to breeding its own cattle.
Long after they no longer import any ones, they will be killing cattle in much better ways,because we are buying stun guns are training and are stopping sales to those who will not improve.
As always we want the best out comes that is all any one can expect.
continued

Country party,now National,has always jeered me and my party, saying we could not even milk a cow.
Ignoring the fact it often is the worker doing it for them.
But lead by Wilkie and man who won his Tasmanian seat after running third, a group wants to ban this trade totally.
No benefit for the improvements no care for our farmers nothing but total ban.
I have strong views, stand by them but question them constantly, to do other is to willingly blind your self.
I distrust ANY ANIMAL RIGHTS GROUP.
They all use the tactics I sometimes did in my youth.lie fabricate evidence,, but win.
Believe me, if you ring any ABC radio station,talk for a while off air,giving a GREEN background, you will be invited to ring in.
And given prompts what to say,our middle income ABC employees are driving this issue and are greens in nature..
Vegans are too.
Constant efforts to bring change to such country's, to pay for it,are undermined by these folk.
HOW DID a known Australian radical animal rights activist get free run in that country.
YES IT WAS AWFUL but was it nothing less than a paid advertisement,did those workers receive payment for their actions.
Last,please do not think I do not care,have you killed your daily quota of rabbits after checking the traps, I have.
Never like killing but you do eat meat don't you.