ok sorry Rechtub.
In another thread this morning I try to remind that some times out comes are the best that can be arranged.
I too want better and think this will asure us we get it, without damaging a trade we need.
I will bet that we see stun guns used and a very much better out come.
People have called for mass sackings and ending the trade here , not an answer not even close.
It may mark me badly but I no longer trust ANY ANIMAL RIGHTS GROUP.
My exposure to them has found lies radicalism I could continue.
Words in fact nothing will convince me Vegans are not driving them.
Again just how dumb how unknowing, could these idiots be, not just to treat these animals so badly but to let it be filmed.
Truly ask who was paid what.
Is this constructed or every day practice,we will never know but it will improve.

Yabby, belly and others. To put the record straight, this is what I am getting at.

The MLA have been involved in training there for a decade or so and, it is only now, that the media storm has broken that they are seemingly acting.

There would be many who have known of this cruelty for years and simply turned a blind eye. They, along with farmers, stock agents and handing companies, who were privy to this outrage should be sacked.

We have trained these people, subsidised and even assisted them, yet this cruelty has been allowed to continue until now.

Governments answer, stop the export. Once again they have taken the easy way out.

There would be thousands of head in holding yards right now with no place to go.

Just imagine the effort that has gone in to mustering these from one million acre properties.

Provide the equipment and sack the offenders I say, but don’t affect the (innocent) farmers or our exports.

Well that is the interesting thing Rehctub, there have been a number
of very credible people go to Indonesia who say that when they went
to looking at slaughter facilities, they never saw the kind of
cruelty that was shown, but that things were ok when they were there.

So we should not forget that AA are on a mission here. To his credit,
Joe Ludwig has not just given in and banned the trade, but banned
shipment to a dozen works and is only at various solutions. If
he had simply shut things down, we certainly would have a disaster
on our hands in the North.

But what is apparent is that for cattle, the traditional halal
killing of cattle is extremely difficult to perform if its not
done by an expert. Old types of stun guns used a bolt which damaged
the brain, so were no accepted as a halal solution . But new types
of stun guns simply stun the animal and render it unconcious,
so can be used in halal slaughter. Its these types that we need to
introduce in Indonesia.

Now in the ME, MLA has people stationed there full time, not so in
Indonesia, as far as I know. Apparently MLA had various hold ups
in introducing stun guns in Indonesia, as they were seen as firearms
and so there were legal issues that held things up.

The bottom line seems to be this. Both Indonesia and Australia need
each other in this trade and now that its caused a scandal in the
media here, both countries will give it top priority and resolve
the issue pretty speedily. Stun guns will be introduced in many
Indonesian meatworks, both Australian and Indonesian cattle will
benefit and long term that has to be a good thing for animal welfare.

Trucking half a million cattle south to Adelaide, where most of their
value is gobbled up by trucking costs, is hardly a realistic option.

Yabby,
I have no time for Animals Australia and similar groups, as their sole aim is to shut down live exports, full stop. They do not accept that livexport was born out of the consumers in the receiving countries demanding fresh meat and a lack of refrigerated storage, both commercial and in the homes of consumers.

Your info about stun guns adds weight to my original post about improvements being frustrated by religous and cultural attitudes.

Sadly, there are attrocities being committed in many places and against which we have no power to change, other than voice our protest.

However, the unspeakable (and so unnecessary) cruelty being inflicted upon our live cattle in Indonesia is one we must stop. We are a civilized country and we cannot condone this, least of all with "qualifications". To be a party to it, no matter if indirectly, is to belie the concept of 'civilized'. Once this principle is accepted, then solutions can be found.

We may not be able to prevent cruelty to cattle from other origins, but we surely must from this country.

Of concern, is the comment of one of the interviewees who stated that Halal killing required that the animal be conscious. What are the requirement of Halal killing? I had thought that Halal and Kosher killing were similarly based.

I believe that if a nick is found on the blade used in Kosher killing, then the premise is that the animal has felt pain, therefore the kill is not Kosher.

Needless to say, stunning is the only assurance that an animal if free of pain.

An image which will stay with me for a long time, is that of the last animal to be killed.
Having seen all the others in front of it killed, skinned and butchered, with eyes full of misery, it was uncontrollably shaking in terror.

Yabby, you say>>Well that is the interesting thing Rehctub, there have been a number
of very credible people go to Indonesia who say that when they went
to looking at slaughter facilities, they never saw the kind of
cruelty that was shown, but that things were ok when they were there.

A simple and cost effective solution is CCTV monitoring.

These cameras can be motion sensitive, the imiages collected, stored and audited.

Audits could be carried out by the press of a button,through the use of a modem.

These rouges would either clean up thier act, or be banned.

Meanwhile, our much needed exports could continue, although I am opossed to live exports in general, but only because of lost jobs.