"1 That the values of the Labor leadership differ significantly from those espoused by Julia Gillard"

How so? The values of Labor pretty much meet the same standard as the Coalition these days with the rush to privatise and embrace neo-liberal policy. Historically I cannot remember a time when any party could claim all their members are in agreement 100% on any issue.
Even Tony Abbott is purported to be differing from the Liberal backbench on a number of issues including failure to consult with his own shadow ministry before making announcements about paid maternity leave and funding of Indonesian schools. Tony Abbott only won the leadership ballot by one vote indicating that there are many who do not share all of his values.

"2 That the practices of senior labor fosters criminality of the sort we see regularly."

What practices of senior labor? How do they differ from the Coalition? Do you mean the sort of criminality that leads to corrupt oil-for-food programs, assertions about WMDs which led to the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians and soldiers.

The fact that you intentionally aligned child porn and pedophilia with Labor values is what is being scrutinised. If you had any experience of law enforcement you would know that pedophiles come from wide ranging backgrounds and 'values' including many who claim 'family values' and who are right wing conservative types.

You really need to get out more.

As for gay bars. What is wrong with gay bars? You make it sound like a bad thing that a group of people who share the same sexuality would want to meet other people like them. Being gay is not being 'corrupt' nor should gays be targeted by bigotted individuals. There are homosexuals in all walks of life including the National Party and the Liberal Party.

I claim immunity!

I invoke Godwin's Law!

Belly has uttered the 'H' word! H-tl-r! He said it in line 15 of his post of Wednesday, 27 April 2011 at 1:44:17 PM. He did!

His punishment shall be to have to look at the cartoon in the Twitpic link in this Tweet ( http://twitter.com/#!/vexnews/status/59382493224247296 ), then read this news item: http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/innocent-man-busted-for-child-porn-after-neighbour-leached-wifi-20110426-1dugz.html .

H-tl-r indeed! Bad, bad user.




Ammonite asks:

"FG. You are a Lib spin merchant aren't you?"

Ammonite. What can I say? Just because I have been helping defend SM's topic from drowning under an initially irrational chorus of reflexive counter-accusations because of his associating the word 'paedophilia' with the word 'Labor' in his title, that makes me a Lib spin merchant? Perhaps you would get an answer you would more prefer to hear if you asked Shadow Minister whether I am a Lib spin merchant. Then again, perhaps not. SM seems to find little difficulty in representing a clearly re-quoted reference from me as to the existence of an Opus Dei connection with the O'Farrell NSW government, as being a back-down from my having made such a claim in the first place.

Also, it is not a good look to diss the very site that allows you to express your own opinion as 'permitting defamation' just because the views expressed by others may run counter to your own. I think you could count on it that, having approved this topic, GrahamY would be keeping a close eye on anything that even approached being defamatory in the thread.

SM,

I get it that Bernard Finnigan, who is claimed to have Opus Dei links, is a SA Labor politician. Do you not get it that Opus Dei might seek to simultaneously exercise influence across the political spectrum? Kate Mannix seems well qualified to suggest so. Is she the 'stay-at-home-mum' you seemingly treat so dismissively?

I can not quite understand Forrest's whole in put here.
I do understand he seems to be a conservative as is his right.
RObert is ,and in no way would I say in being so they inherit bad habits/thoughts.
I remain however convinced I have been honest and in my view quite right,to say SM flames me.
And to highlight/question Individual and Sonofglion generalizations that ALL WHO VOTE FOR MY PARTY BETRAY MY COUNTRY
I just can not resolve this issue, why is our country becoming so very divided.
YES my posts say it Labor looks like two eggs scrambled then thrown on a wall after then being sold as fresh.
ONLY the fact Abbott is far worse, keeps us even close.
IF some looked over their shoulders,at policy's like Abbott's Social security for middle and high income earners and a host more we could craft a list so very long.
But the pure hate, do not tell me it is not seen here FG [not in your posts] is blinding us all to just how badly our country is served by third grade leaders on both sides
In my view Gillards trip over seas will not lift her poling it may well drop ,unless she stays there.

Belly, "I can not quite understand Forrest's whole in put here"

Forrest seem's top be making the point that the reaction to the opening post has not been a reasoned one. It's been an emotive response attacking SM and the conservatives.

To my view SM could be thoroughly rebutted if one of his opponents could demonstrate one of the following.
- The rates of paedophilia by coalition pollies is at a similar level to that of Labor leaders
- The rates of paedophilia by Labor pollies is statistically not significant. The variance is within standard deviation for similar groups which don't have a structural bias towards attracking paedophiles. It can be argued that Boy Scouts and some church occupations have a structural bias which historically could have attracted paedophiles - close limited supervision access to children.

Stepping back from the particularly emotive issue of paedophilia a similar cases could be made for conviction rates for other crimes.

I've not worked out where to dig up the relevant numbers to do the maths.

On the face of it the number of convicted paedophiles amongst former Labor pollies does seem unusually high but is it high enough to suggest correlation, is it just a blip or are those numbers similar to those found in other groups?

As has been pointed out elsewhere the reference to gay bar's seems irrelevant.

I also strongly agree with the point you make about the level of hate that has become part of political debate but from my own biased perspective I've seen a tendancy by the left to use very nasty tactics against opponents then scream foul when similar tactics are used against their side. Perhaps we all tend to not notice the sin's of those we mostly agree with as much as we notice the sin's of our opponents.

R0bert

just to prove
its not just the polies judges or cathoholics
http://100777.com/node/463

Ammonite,

I have given plenty of examples of Labor MP criminality. Also some information and links to the Orkopolous case where suspicion was discouraged and the whistle blower harassed. I was also unable to find where in any of these cases the perpetrator had been exposed by the Labor organisation.

Robert has outlined exactly how my assertion can be solidly disproved, but my own inexpert calculations favour my claims.

Pelican,

I have no issue with gays, rather the opposite if you read my posts on gay marriage etc. I do have an issue with a husband cheating on his wife with random strangers. The fact that he was using an official vehicle to do so was particularly stupid and seedy.