I do so delight in understatement.

SM posts:

"This may not be the greatest source
of info, but it is the most concise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Clarke_(Australian_politician )"

Indeed. The link tells us that there is no Wiki entry for David Clarke, Australian politician. Good one!
(I include a Twitpic of a screenshot as evidence as to the state of the Wiki entry as at the time I viewed it. See: http://twitpic.com/4pw32f ) Nothing like a good larf to start the day, he he.




To his credit, SM also posts a link to the 'official' source of information on Opus Dei in Australia, the website of that organisation itself. Here is a Twitpic of its FAQ page as it appears if you click the question 'Does Opus Dei publish lists of members?': http://twitpic.com/4pwnks

Now I don't think I have any credibility problem with respect to my posts so far to this topic, even if I have swum against the tide of what I saw as over-reaction to a titular inference connecting the ALP organisationally with tolerance of paedophilia. Which is why I am somewhat perplexed at Shadow Minister's attempt at painting me up as having 'flighted' any claim, let alone one of any 'fantastical nature', with respect to (presumably) Opus Dei.

It was Penelope Debelle of The Adelaide Advertiser who identifies Bernard Finnigan as "one of the most influential figures in [the SA] Parliament", in the third last paragraph of this item: http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/in-depth/backroom-mp-bernard-finnigans-rapid-rise-and-fall/story-fn2sdwup-1226043111535 .

It was David Nason and Mark Schliebs of The Australian who reported historian Gary Lockwood as attributing an Opus Dei involvement to Finnigan, in this news item: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/rann-caucus-mulls-replacement-for-finnigan/story-e6frgczx-1226043513529 .

It was Kate Mannix who made the Opus Dei connection, through David Clarke, with the O'Farrell NSW government, in this OLO article: http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=11838 . Opus Dei, unsurprisingly, seeks to exercise political influence across the board.

SM, it would have been these articles, or ones like them, that helped get your topic approved. Why suggest that, together, they constitute some sort of fantastical claim by me? Especially when you claim independent knowledge as to David Clarke's wife's involvement in Opus Dei.

Pelican,

My assertions are:

1 That the values of the Labor leadership differ significantly from those espoused by Julia Gillard.
2 That the practices of senior labor fosters criminality of the sort we see regularly.

FG

You were the one to assert the link between the liberals and Opus Dei. When I challenged you, you produced some feeble links which actually indicated strong Catholic influence on the ALP and passing reference in a post by a now stay at home mum to a link with David Clarke and OD. And then tried to back out. My knowledge is not independent, merely a 5min google search, which appears to be beyond your requirements to validate information.

Bernard Finnigan is Labor not Liberal. How does this support your assertion that the libs have OD links?

Written word unlike verbal combat,still is much the same.
We all of us surely remember pushing mum too much as we chucked our childhood tantrums.
I do.
And the whisper in the back of our minds,that one that reminded us just maybe we had gone too far.
But sure in the understanding if we continued mum may just give in buy that lolly to shut us up.
It still lives in the heart of some, I knew one who after three days of lunch hour debate, three days of confronting every one around the table said these words.
OK I know that I am wrong, but I am right.
It was not politics that subject, far from it.
But he carried great heat away from his loss, I played only a minor roll in it.
Some time after one of those rubbish so called Australian patriots newspapers, along time before the grub from Swansea was charged or even won a seat had an anti Labor story in it.
It was shoved in my letter box with the words read it scribbled in his handwriting.
I did, it had an interesting map, of the planet Mars,and drawings of helicopters,/ space ships
Seems Mr Hitler is alive and well living there with his top people waiting to come back, over night, in a growing fleet of space ships.
I am reminded of that in this thread and others from our gentle man author.

Shadow Minister

>> That the practices of senior labor fosters criminality of the sort we see regularly. <<

Examples and evidence please. Else your last post is just more defamation that you are permitted in these pages with regard to the Labor Party.

FG

You are a Lib spin merchant aren't you?

ammo mite
you need look no further than the privatisation od state forrests..or the selling off of electicity
or water..or the solar cell scam..
or putting in pipelines for gas sales for multinationals

or the gift of half a billion
by peter beatup to the gladstone plasnt that never got built
or calling building school halls an education revolution

heck both parties are there to serve big business

just now the big boned bleach bottle redhead..
with sow hips and a dress sence of a lamb chop..[sorry mutton..]
and her beer barrel bum..is in china..

selling 15 percent of origen energy
and a nice fat gas deal..[for ana blight]
new alp president

with her male business partners..
no doudt big labour donation's will result
[one hand washes the other]..

its a filthy game

played by both sides

but lets not get away from the reason
poli-tic-ians sell their soul

guilt...once you sold out once..your their boy
even if your not strictly speakling anything like a girl
but a grey headed ol/troll looking like lamb chops and snags gone bad

Good Afternoon Folks,

Shadow Minister talks critically only about Labor's values while conveniently overlooking the values of the Liberal Party.

John Howard ran the most secret government in history where rhetoric, class, religion, ethnicity, gender, race, played a part as well of course as the erosion of human rights. Just to mention a few things to jog some memories - things like the failure to provide reparations for the wrongs done to the stolen generation, the arbirary confinement of powers of detention "on authorities which fly in the face of covenant standards," the languishing of Australian citizens in Guantanamo Bay "without charge, and without access to law," the detention of children and their families in 'soul destroying conditions,' the steady erosion of 'equality in terms of social justice,' the very rule of law was in jeopardy, and in the lead up to the Iraq war - Howard dismissed the views of well-informed people as - "retired diplomats, retired members of the Defence Forces and of the Judiciary..." To be able to brush aside such notables along with the Australian Senate and much of the public service. This was to display an uncommon ego. So much for values.

Let's take a closer look at Liberal Party values ...
The Liberal Party, supposedly the bastion of smaller government and less intervention, is full of people who are ardently in favour of regulating who we sleep with, who we marry, what we do with our bodies, who can have children and how.

I could go on but my point here is - that both sides of politics have had their fair share of incidents and scandals. Therefore to consistently finger-point at only one-sde smacks of ignorance and hatred and as we know - any criticism born of ignorance, mistrust, and hatred, is not only ineffectual and a complete waste of time. It is harmful and elicitis equally pointless and damaging responses.