Robert,

As I included fraud and other crimes, the net is far wider than "the convictions of 3 labor politicians for paedophilia". And while less odious is more statistically relevant.

Pelican,

I agree, something that changes the system from total control from above that "That removes the power from the few to the many including reducing the impact of influential lobby groups that don't always match the interests of the citizenry. There is no such thing as a perfect system, but the system we have encourages the type of content this thread epitomises."

FG,

Belly claims again and again that I am one eyed. I have never denied this. I do, however, support issues that the coalition does not, so my "one eyedness" is more a disgust with the ALP machine than anything else. He is, however, deluded if he thinks his input is balanced.

Also, if the original imputation of "Are these the real labor values" has been answered, the fact that a disproportionate No of ALP MPs perform criminal acts has not.

I think my post history can be my evidence here.
I not ever Shadow Minister, have flogged my party here.
Doubt I could ever be said, by honest men,to be in any way as biased as he clearly is.
My party has its grubs, it has its problems.
Not unlike both conservative party's we have left right and center factions.
And not unlike the Liberal extreme right currently running conservatives we suffer from foolish acts.
IF I am as biased as Shadow Minister,I can not claim to have my party's best interests at heart ONLY CONSTANT IMPROVEMENT is acceptable for any party.
No one has addressed my claims about past conservative leaders dalliances, nore should they it mattered not .
But to infer and do not overlook SM,s partners here, ALP member ship is breeding or hiding pedophilia , or that those who vote ALP are betraying this country is at best flaming.
I refuse to ever let this bloke defame a whole party wait endlessly for his views on his sides wrongs.
And challenge the intelligence of any one who says my party betrays this country.
No one who is blind to his sides wrongs, thinks the other side is always wrong has any grasp of the subject.

Shadow Minister tossing Child abuse crimes in the mix was always going to be sensational and divert the discussion from those other issues.

How about you note then retract that part of the discussion and attempt to make your case on the other areas where you consider Labor values might be relevant.

How far back do we take the issue and is it only convictions that count?
Do politicians widely believed to have been corrupt but never successfully prosecuted count?

I remain undecided about the brown paper bags and Joh whereas I doubt that many Labor supporters would be in any doubt. I'm personally very confident that one other minister in that government was genuinely and massively corrupt but for reasons not related to guilt or innocence the matter was never tested in court.

I think that John Howard acted either dishonestly or negligently regarding the children overboard issue, probably both. There appears to be plenty of claims that the government used it's power to silence witnesses at the time.

Similar for the "facts" which were given to the public prior to the invasion of Iraq. The PM and relevant ministers either lied or acted negligently in their dealings with that information. If the US lied to the Australian government about WMD then the ongoing support for Bush by Howard after the facts became clear does not show it.

I consider Abbott's role in the secret slush fund to try and destroy Pauline Hanson to be very unethical behaviour. One thing was worse than Pauline's views and that was the actions of many of her opponents.

Whilst I think that the ALP and unions deliberately misrepesented Workchoices I considered Howards decision to implement such major changes without taking it to the electorate to be little better than Julia's recent backflip. The main difference was that Howard did not specifically say he would not do it but just as with Julia circumstances changed.

I'm guessing that those who don't vote for the coalition can come up with a much better list of unethical and dishonest behaviour by them.

R0bert

At this point I could throw a list of conservative politicians who left much earlier than they planned.
An ex Minister for Defense and a deputy Prime minister just two.
I Could question Mr Abbott's Son, that turned out not to be his son.
Drag the Catholic Church into this debate by reminding others three of Labors offending people are in fact Catholic.
What is political debate?
Is it the birther/tea party insanity in the USA.
Is it hate your opponents.
Or should it/is it highlighting faults and maybe better ways things can be done.
If it is a clear right to say 44% of our country's voters betray it,or slander a whole section this way, BE WARNED we are weakening our country.
We divide and just maybe conquer our selves.
Great challenges face us, some will not see but believe me goody's do not always win wars.
And we are not far from one.
I will debate politics until death, because not to,not to want to know why things that should happen are not or are for that matter is to be blind to the reality's of life.
Sorry ,true, but some posters seemingly are from people who both over estimate their understanding and under estimate others.
Mate ship still speaks for some of us respect has to be earned no one has the right to it while defaming so very many.

Robert,

If you include perceived corruption, then 25% of Americans believe Obama was not born in America. Stick to convictions or at least where charges were laid or where ICAC recommended prosecution.

If we were to look at unethical behaviour, I would not have space for what Juliar has done in the last 12 months.

Shadow Minister the issue is also impacted to some degree by who has had power recently (easier to act corruptly when in power than opposition if lies and spin are not crimes) and the apparent unwillingness of pollies to let their peers face criminal changes. Ho

I might have forgotten it from earlier in the discussion but have you posted a list of pollies (or former pollies) who have been successfully prosecuted with criminal charges along the way.

Trying to remember the numbers but at a guess in Qld the numbers are almost even depending on the timespan. I'm thinking 3 from the Joh era and 4 from Labor (and Darcy's crimes went back to his time as a teacher I think, Merri Rose was jailed for crimes committed after she left office).

The early efforts by the ALP to protect Nuttal don't qualify but are significant. An article in Crikey http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/07/16/crikey-says-43/ pretty much sums up the Qld government under Beattie.

R0bert