I'd like to get your opinion on something, Yabby. From some of my earlier posts, you may recall that I regard you as someone who basically knows what he's talking about on the live exports issue and as someone who is worth listening to, rather than endlessly arguing with.

I hate the live export trade and wish that it was not happening. When I'm 30 minutes drive up the road from where I live, I sometimes see the sheep trucks on their way to Fremantle Port. And I see some of the animals already suffering, with their legs sticking out of the truck rails. And their terrible journey has hardly even begun.

When I spent a few years as WA Wheatbelt manager for an insurance company in the 1970s, I got to know many farmers as friends, not just as clients. And I know that farmers in general have caring attitudes towards animals. But they have to survive in what can be a very difficult industry in all sorts of ways. And right now I accept absolutely that suddenly banning live exports would be financially disastrous for a huge number of WA farmers.

What I would like your opinion on is this, Yabby. Can you see a long term feasible strategy for at least winding down the numbers involved in live exports? And make the situation more acceptable for those animals which are still being exported live?

Rex, thanks for your post, its a welcome change. Lots of people
comment on those legs, so I did some experiments. All is not what
it seems. Imagine yourself standing on the back of a moving truck,
with no support from any side. As that truck starts, stops, corners
etc, you would fall about. Its the same with sheep. You'll find that
a pen only half full, is far worse for the animals,as they do tend
to then have no support. Yet I've packed pens to only 70% and
still had lambs stick their legs out. Thinking back to when we were
kids on the school bus, we used to do the same!

Quite alot could happen in the meat industry, but frankly right now
its a bit of a disaster just to keep the wheels on the present
cart, without even thinking of the live export sheep. Beef cattle
have been waiting for weeks for slaughter space, as nobody is trucking
them East this year. T&R are ready to invest 40 million in a new
works, but this State Govt does not seem to give a hoot about
agriculture, so I doubt that its now going to happen. IMHO this
govt is riding high on the mining boom, so farming has been written
off, they will still get re elected.

We could do quite alot, if there was a Govt willing to do more then
put up red tape, but I can't see that happening in the near
future. So the outlook for the meat industry and the farmers
who supply it, is not so bright at the present time, I am sad to
say.

Thank you for your response, Yabby. I'll comment on your suggestion that the present WA govt isn't particularly interested in the farming sector. I can certainly understand that when a situation, like farming, is full of hard and uncertain choices, then it's easy to relegate it to the "too hard basket". Particularly when you are seen to be doing very well in the mining/resources sector.

I'm a long time member of the WA Greens. Just a member, not an official, or hard worker for "the cause". And I don't necessarily agree with all the policies or priorities either. But I've been around for a long time.

I live in the state electorate of Rockingham. As you will be aware, we recently had a by-election in the adjacent seat of Peel. I involved myself in this by-election on behalf of the Greens. Both Labor [who as expected got home in Peel] and Liberal had significantly reduced primary votes, whilst the Greens secured a very good result, easily their best yet in this area. I believe that the Greens will be able to increasingly have some influence on the state Labor government, ie we'll be seen as needed to help secure the required result for some Labor candidates.

I'm pragmatic by nature, as are quite a number of Green minded people. We can't afford to be pig-headed about something like immediately trying to ban live exports, but we can think and work towards what many, perhaps most Australians regard as better options. I'd like to think that the Greens can have a beneficial effect on the state Labor govt policies in this respect. But I readily admit that I don't know enough about the nitty-gritty of this subject.

In the event that the Greens can have a level headed influence on the Carpenter govt, either now or after the next state election, then do you have any suggestions?

Rex, I actually don't have a problem with Alan Carpenter, I think
he's a smart fellow. If he was Minister for Agriculture, things
might well be very different.

The present debacle is really about what happened in the past.
Before 2000, the Meat Commission, with such people as Laurie
Connel on its board, had a monopoly on lamb exports from WA.
The result was a disaster, nobody else bothered to invest in
sheepmeat processing, for obvious reasons.

Monty House eventually deregulated the industry and facilitated
the setting up of one modern plant in WA, namely Fletchers.
The present Minister for Ag was dead against it. What is needed
is a second modern, efficient plant, monopolies are unhealthy.
T&R are willing to do that, but they need some facilitation.
But if the present guy did it, he would have egg all over his
face perhaps, because of the past. So hopefully he'll retire as
soon as possible and they'll put a new person in there. There
is just a lack of talent on both sides of politics in WA right
now, I'm sorry to say.

So I think its politics and egos holding things up in the WA
meat industry.

Long term, if you want a large, efficient meat industry, selling
to the third world, paying first world wages, then you need to
mechanise big time and get rid of all those taxes and charges
which apply at the moment, or you will never have an industry
to replace live exports

paleif,
"I am sick of you changing your post "names" "
What do you mean?

The AWB enquiry was specifically about it's dealings with Iraq in regard to the "oil for food" progarm. It was not an enquiry into AWB in general. This is why "live exports" are irrelevent.
Unless your detective skills can uncover that the sheep were part of the oil for food progarm too.

THE RSPCA had the answer for fed­eral Labor politicians struggling to galv­anise voters with the AWB bribery scandal.

The recent 60 Minutes program on Channel 9 revealing cruelty on Australian cattle in the Middle East hit a nerve.

Not that the RSPCA was surprised by the strong response from Australians outraged at endemic cruelty in the live export trade.

Many Australian voters may not give two hoots about $300 million in kickbacks to Saddam Hussein to sew up Australian wheat sales to Iraq. But it would be a different story if the AWB was ever linked to live exports.

The Gold Coast-based Halal Kind Meats is off to the backblocks of Queensland and West­ern Australia to look for Australian slaughter­ing opportunities. Dozens of Australian abatt­oirs have closed since the live export trade boomed in the 1990s. Kindness to animals is part of the Australian 'fair go' tradition.

Labor appears more concerned with the future of Australia's livestock trade overseas than banning the practice.

I think the reporter said it all.

Kevin Rudd was contacted for a comment and considering it was all over the media at the time it was the chance he needed to grab the publics attention.

Remember I did not open this thread up to discuss the live Animal export trade. I can do that anywhere. In fact many posters are aware we have had several threads regarding this issue.
You can find them by clicking on and doing a search under. Church leaders turn Their backs On Animal Welfare- Alternatives To Live Exports-And there are several others.

If you have any thoughts as to if all Ministers and especially leaders of oppostion should inform the public about current issues that would be great.

re Your question what we discovered. perhaps you might like to contact Mark Vaile or Downers office and ask what was passed on in 2003.
Please be aware they tend to have short memories.
in the mean time please try to stay on post. That would be appreciated