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The Forum > General Discussion > Are you 'There' Mr Rudd or heading for the hills

Are you 'There' Mr Rudd or heading for the hills

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OPEN LETTER TO KEVIN


Breaking Rural News : LIVESTOCK


Rudd won't Ban live sheep exports
Australia
Monday, 19 February 2007

Federal Oppositition leader, Kevin Rudd, will not ban live exports if elected, despite mounting pressure on the industry in the wake of more allegations of animal cruelty.

The live sheep industry has come into focus again after Animals Australia aired footage filmed in Egypt recently, showing Australian sheep on-sold into the local market for the Halal religious festival, then tied to roof racks and thrown into car boots.

Mr Rudd says he does not abide animal cruelty, but he wouldn't be banning live exports.

"We had a beef property. I understand these things," Mr Rudd said.


Dame Edna might have hit the nail on the head when saying. I just cant imagine a PM named Kevin.

I have difficulty myself after contacting Rudds Office last year regarding the direct link of AWB to live Animal Exports.
You understand you say . Do you Really Mr Rudd?

GOLD COAST BULLETIN

LIVE EXPORT TRADE INQUIRY WOULD BE LIKE LAMBS TO THE SLAUGHTER

THE RSPCA may have the answer for fed­eral Labor politicians struggling to galv­anise voters with the AWB bribery scandal.

The recent 60 Minutes program on Channel 9 revealing cruelty on Australian cattle in the Middle East hit a nerve.

Not that the RSPCA was surprised by the strong response from Australians outraged at endemic cruelty in the live export trade.

Many Australian voters may not give two hoots about $300 million in kickbacks to Saddam Hussein to sew up Australian wheat sales to Iraq. But it would be a different story if the AWB was ever linked to live exports.

The Gold Coast-based Halal Kind Meats is off to the backblocks of Queensland and West­ern Australia to look for Australian slaughter­ing opportunities. Dozens of Australian abatt­oirs have closed since the live export trade boomed in the 1990s. Kindness to animals is part of the Australian 'fair go' tradition.

Labor appears more concerned with the future of Australia's livestock trade overseas than banning the practice.
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Tuesday, 20 February 2007 10:46:56 AM
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He wont be banning live exports. He won't be banning coal. He won't say what his Iraq policy is. He supports US bases in WA. Seems like a pretty crafty pollie. If Mr Rudd is elected I doubt very much if we will notice a lot of difference.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 20 February 2007 11:42:48 AM
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I detest live exports of animals. The only live exports should be of Australian politicians, who should be treated the same way, on arrival, as our live animals are being treated by Third World morons now.

Rudd? He has the substance and general attributes of a weak milk shake.

Howard? A weak and losing-it old man.

Bring on Peter Costello.
Posted by Leigh, Tuesday, 20 February 2007 12:19:34 PM
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Live expotr well we should be doing better.
we have employment problems here so we should be looking at expot processed instead of live.

www.tapp.org.au
Posted by tapp, Tuesday, 20 February 2007 12:36:38 PM
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tapp, what do you propose? subsidising abbatoirs. the simple fact is that these markets won't pay the high costs of Australian processing(as opposed to home butchery) where the end product is 500% or more of the animals value.

Perhaps the animal rights groups should embark on an education program for these overseas customers as they would otherwise source their requirements elsewhere. Same net result. But of course cruelty to non-Australian animals is ok!
Posted by rojo, Tuesday, 20 February 2007 1:14:53 PM
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One of the reasons for live exports is that the people in the countries that we export live to dont have good access to refrigeration. So, TAPP, slaughtering here then exporting isnt going to work for these markets.
Posted by Country Gal, Tuesday, 20 February 2007 1:19:14 PM
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well maybe we should be thinking outside of the square
solutions to problems.

this can be done better
Posted by tapp, Tuesday, 20 February 2007 1:23:55 PM
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Continued OPEN LETTER TO MR RUD

Gold Coast Bulletin>
Labor appears more concerned with the future of Australia's livestock trade overseas than banning the practice. Even noted animal
lover, HM The Queen, passed the buck back to Australia when asked to intervene.

Cattle rate No. 2 on live export numbers. Sheep are export kings. Those imperfect or injured ones not fed to the sharks or minced alive await their fate at Middle Eastern slaugh­terhouses. Travel from farm to abattoir can take three months.

Animal welfare zealots reckon Australia's live export trade is 'a story of profit at any cost'. With six million sheep, 850 cattle and 100,000 goats shipped offshore each year there must be a juicy quid in the game for someone.

Why doesn't Labor home in on a Wesl Australian live export investigation which found the trade costs Australia $1.7 billion in local production plus $280 million in house­hold income and up to 12,000 jobs?

The Australian Federation of Islamic Councils insists live exports are not necessary to comply with Muslim laws.

"That can be done in Australia under the Australian Government supervised Muslim Slaughter Program," said AFIC president Dr Ameer Ali. More than two million sheep were slaughtered in Australia last year for Middle Eastern markets and shipped frozen or chilled.

THE Gold Coast BULLETIN, Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - Page 17

Leigh Runner Tap. Quite rightly so with your comments.

Country Girl. You are misinfomred. Thats an old furfy those in the barbaric Industry and The Government put out years ago. Rodger Fletcher has the largest Halal Meat Supply From Australia and does not export one Animal Alive.

If you read the Media R Put out by Muslim leaders of this country they say opening its a myth!.

Rojo No Actually its the other way around. The public pay large subs to fund live exports. $20.00 dollars blood money and the export of our jobs. Whos a clever boy then?

FYI I will post that FACTS from Muslim Leaders on the following post.
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Tuesday, 20 February 2007 3:46:07 PM
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OPEN LETTER TO KEVIN
Dear Mr Rudd
Further to our contact last year regarding the direct link to AWB and live Animal Exports could you now explain to the Australian Public your lack of interest in the matter.[ Especially at that time]?
Surely Mr Rudd you may have felt the Australian public had a right to know this?
Do you conceive that given the publicity at that same time on 60 Minutes and other media outlets regarding live animal exports that as Shadow Minister of Trade you had a clear duty to inform the public?
Is there any reason you headed for the hills?

You say you are involved in beef and you understand.

May I put forward a proposal for a policy Mr Rudd regarding a alternative to live animal exports that 99% of the Australian Public Want banned.
For Several years we have held a MOU with Muslim Leaders and held meetings with Islamic and amoung others Malaysian Government Ds of Halal meats.

Malaysia see itself as the future hun of Halal supplying through JAKIM accredtitaions on to the middle East and through the world.

This is a win win for Australia considering their interest in our Free Green product and love of Australian meat
In short co Joint ventures.

Farmers working direct with Muslim purchasers overseas.

Its quite easy really and we will reopen some plants as well.
just imagine what a national Accreditation For Halal meat would do for Australia.

Surely working in close partnership forming friendships will also supply much needed improvements of Australia and Muslim Countries Relationships.
Anyway its the right thing to do.

Perhaps Mr Rudd you might like to lead the way if we could arrange a visit to your farm with overseas live importers of animals that are prepaired to look at this policy.
Who knows then we might all have some policies.

That would be a good example and dare I say a vote winner for the next elections.

Are you There Mr Rudd
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Tuesday, 20 February 2007 4:16:53 PM
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well you'll be happy to tell me how much those live export subsidies are then and who are the recipients. I'm still not sure how you expect these people to pay for meat processed and packed under our wages system but you're the dreamer so lay it on me.
Posted by rojo, Tuesday, 20 February 2007 4:26:24 PM
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Breaking Rural News : LIVESTOCK

Rudd might, possibly, maybe, potentially now ban live sheep exports
Australia
Wednesday, 21 February 2007

Relax people, I am sure we will see a headline like this (above) shortly...

Rudd is a smart guy with a strong personal story but having lived in the US during the last Presidential campaign he is beginning to remind me of John Kerry...he's a Christian socialist one minute then he is against socialism, he thinks John Howard has made a harsher Australia but then he more aggressively attacks political correctness than the PM on the Big Day Out flag issue, he wants Iraq to be stable and supports the US alliance but doesn't want any troops there, he attacks Howard as a free market zealot but then criticizes the Howard government for spending too much money...the question is if you are left-of-centre who are you going to vote for in '07 because Kevin is clearly not your man...unless of course all those secularists on the left have suddenly found God.
Posted by matt@righthinker.com, Tuesday, 20 February 2007 5:03:32 PM
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Can you post your info on www.tapp.org.au with links to other info

if possible.

forum page is on the links & info page

thanks

stu
Posted by tapp, Tuesday, 20 February 2007 7:10:19 PM
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OPEN LETTER TO KEVIN RUDD[continued]

Regardless if "You" care or "not" that Australian Animals are being dragged chased with axes skinned alive thrown off trucks their eyes pulled out while alive their tendons slashed- All as a matter of standard- There are some 'other" questions to be answered Mr Rudd

Questions

Why did you withold information supplied to you in regards to disturbing information regarding the biggest enquiry ever held in this country the AWB enquiry and its clear connection to live exports Mr Rudd?

2 Dont you feel the public have the right to know the truth Mr Rudd?

3 Why did you head for the hills just two days after the 60 Minute enquiry when you were supplied with documents supporting the fact that the AWB purchased the live Animal Exports from Wesfarmers in August 2003 in a attempt to distance themselves from the barbaric vile trade after the very public Cormo express.?

4 Do you agree that a leader of opposition has a duty to disclose all the facts of an enquiry known to him or her?

5 Is there in fact a duty to do so?

Do you feel it is appropriate for a PM , Minister or Leader of The Opposition to have a beef farms sheep farms and conflicts of interests?

6 What do you think for example of Amandas Piggery?

Our Nations greatest Shame yet we have dozens of people with political influence with clear conflicts of interest -

7 Do you feel this is exceptable?

Please!dont give the Australian people more dribble about making changes Mr Rudd.
The "fact is" we have NO CONTROL of ships not owned by us and "less control of laws in other countries."

It may be a political tool to brand Animal Welfare and Rights groups as extremists and worked well in the past Mr Rudd
That is why People Against Live Exports have formed together as ordinary everyday Aussies who enjoy a steak and res as much as the next guy.
We like to know its treated humanely from padock to plate including our market.
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Tuesday, 20 February 2007 7:52:31 PM
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Well, perhaps Kevin is actually a smart fellow, who understands
the great deal of misinformation and emotional rhetoric that
various animal libber groups are pushing, when it comes to the
live trade. How many of them are actually vegans?

Fact is, thousands of WA farmers would go broke without the live
trade and he would be aware of that. This last drought told an
interesting story. When supply exceeded demand, tens of thousands
of sheep in the saleyards were selling for 5-10 bucks, whilst the
live trade came to farmers rescue and paid 60. With the difference,
farmers could buy food for their other livestock and feed their
families.

Nobody at all has put forward a viable alternative! Meantime
farmers are the only ones spending money in the ME to improve
livestock welfare conditions. Our beloved libber groups seem
to prefer sitting by their computers, trying to dictate to farmers.

So Kevin is wise to not listen to a few extremists, but take time
to understand the facts and then make an informed judgement.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 21 February 2007 11:07:35 AM
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Well said Yabby. About time some of these nuts started putting their money where their mouth is, and spend to improve the welfare of ALL animals in the countries in question, not just those from Australia. Put up or shut up.
Posted by Country Gal, Wednesday, 21 February 2007 1:27:18 PM
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What can I say? The live sheep trade has a high mortality rate, livestock dies in transit. The animals are slaughtered in primitive conditions and subjected to unnecessary cruelty but we don't have to pay Australian slaughtermen or pander to the unions.

If BHP had wanted to train up Australian workers for mining jobs they would have stepped up their training program when they were planning their operations. They didn't because they wanted to import skilled workers to keep wages down. It takes 10 years to bring mining operations on stream.

No use whinging about the lack of workers in WA, years of depression [oops - low economic growth] has seen a drift of people to the east.

K Rudd and Ms T Rein appear to be John and Jeanette clones, well a lot richer and younger.
Posted by billie, Wednesday, 21 February 2007 5:01:21 PM
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In reply to people against every thing ,that is basically what we are talking about isn't it.
If our next prime minister is to be put down for not thinking like every marginal minority he would be forever not liked.
Kevin will govern in the best interests of Australia not just minority's.
Exports of life sheep if not from Australia from other country's will always take place.
Quality of transport and care is a concern the exports are not.
Markets for carcases do not exist.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 22 February 2007 6:37:57 AM
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Matt@Righthinker.

Ah, someone able to put a few words together- and! a sense of humour.

Question- Matt why Kevin Rudd 'jodged' the information regarding AWB.

Billie- Rudd felt he could avoid informing the public?

Should we be pushing for a bill to ensure it does not happen again.?

Did Mr Rudd have a duty to inform the public?

I dont want this thread about live exports

I will open another thread for people to ask questions.

AWB was the biggest enquiry ever held in this country and was Kevin's job and duty to inform the public .

"Instead" of Kevin Rudd who was 'desperate for some media attention grabbing this oportunity he avoided informing the Australian public.

He as we term it, legged it out the back door and headed for the hills.

'Somehow' Kevin Rudd Shadow Minister for Trade? and his advisor even managed 'not to see' the half a dozen strippers standing outside the AWB enquiry with Ban live Export Banners.

It however did not go unoticed by AWB themselves who were visably shaken and abusing the strippers desperate to keep it from the public.

I can now disclose docements were delivered to Mr Rudds office reagarding AWB.
Another copy was sent to Senator Andrew Bartletts office.

"Although in hindsight as labour and the Dems work so closely together with preferences I guess one would have proved sufficent."
Speaking of feeding the chooks.

Neither mentioned the quite sale from Wesfarmers to AWB right in the middle od the AWB enquiry.

Thats the sort of stuff Mr Rudd was looking for-
or was it?
Were they?

As reported>

THE RSPCA may have the answer for fed­eral Labor politicians struggling to galv­anise voters with the AWB bribery scandal.

The recent 60 Minutes program on Channel 9 revealing cruelty on Australian cattle in the Middle East hit a nerve.

Many Australian voters may not give two hoots about $300 million in kickbacks to Saddam Hussein to sew up Australian wheat sales to Iraq. But it would be a different story if the AWB was ever linked to live exports.
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Thursday, 22 February 2007 7:14:32 AM
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Runner and Leigh.
Sorry for delay
Runner, I agree not much would change.
Leigh. Umm Interesting comment.
Cant say I think Peter's is going to change much but yes he's one to convince.
You seem to have some faith.
Given his background it would be interesting.
Your correct that he would be the man if you can grab his attention. Perhaps one day we might be given that opportunity with some Muslim leaders. I hope your right.

Belly-Minorities ? What are you talking about? Fact is 99% of Australians have spoken. Fact is after three enquiries into the trade ALL which recomemded a Ban the Government ignored those findings. Thats not a minority its a majority.

They were better off with Simmon but Rudd put a stop to that along with poor old Kym.

Belly I said this thread is NOT about live exports.
It goes to the very bone! of our society. It questions does the leader of the opposition for Trade have a duty to disclose the whole truth to the public.?
That is "through an enquiry" especially the AWB which was the largest enquiry ever held in Australia and at any other time for that matter.
This could just as easily been a Lib Shadow Minister Belly.

The question remains still do the people who pay their wages have a right to be informed of all the facts known to him at all time.?

The AWB enquiry was paid for by the public so why should the public be kept from all the facts?

Fact was at that time Belly that the AWB were under investigation and the live export issue was on 60 minutes at the same time.

There is a clear connection between AWB and the money that went to Saddam.
AWB purchased the live exports and it was not! just wheat money that went to Saddam but also the cruel live animal export trade as well.
Fact is he Mr Rudd was supplied those facts and documents but failed to disclose that information to the public.

http://www.livexports.com/cowgun.html

Antje Struthmann
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Thursday, 22 February 2007 9:48:55 AM
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paleif,
Have read through your links and found nothing of substance. If AWB are so conscious of the link to Landmark, why do they include "an AWB company" on all Landmark letterheads and on the signs on retail premises. Landmark is predominately a fertiliser and chemical retailer with finance, realestate and livestock arms. The sale to AWB was no secret.Imagine PALE's delight when they found the secret Wesfarmers MEDIA RELEASE. Amazing detective work.
Shock/horror that AWB would buy a business to actually make money, PALE's insinuation that it is this money that funded the kickbacks. A deliberate misrepresentation in order to slow the Live export market, purported as fact.
Posted by rojo, Friday, 23 February 2007 8:54:35 AM
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The statement 99% of Australians have said they agree with you?
At best you are quite wrong.
In fact it is a lie!
John Howard would be proud of you!
If the question was do you like money no number close to 99% would say yes.
miss truth never wins arguments do you still want to claim 99%?
Posted by Belly, Friday, 23 February 2007 9:18:08 AM
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goodness
Cant you comprehend the issue.
I never said anything about 99%of people agreeing with me! I was refering to polls
The connection between AWB and live exports was kept very quite from the public.

Many ordinary people hearing names like LandMark and Westfarmers DONT connect that with anything in particular.

That aside This thread is to ask the question should Ministers_ Both in power and opposition disclose ALL?

What are the requirments of all Sentors and ministers paid by the tax payer to disclose all.?

Especially in the middle of an enquiry regarding a topic enquiry that was aired just days before on 60 minutes.?

As the man himself said. He has interests and he understands.
Our question is does he.
Which interests come first?. His Duty as shadow Minister or his private and personal biz?
I think the Gold Coast Bulletin summed in up when they reported>

GOLD COAST BULLETIN

LIVE EXPORT TRADE INQUIRY WOULD BE LIKE LAMBS TO THE SLAUGHTER

THE RSPCA may have the answer for fed­eral Labor politicians struggling to galv­anise voters with the AWB bribery scandal.

The recent 60 Minutes program on Channel 9 revealing cruelty on Australian cattle in the Middle East hit a nerve.

Not that the RSPCA was surprised by the strong response from Australians outraged at endemic cruelty in the live export trade.

Many Australian voters may not give two hoots about $300 million in kickbacks to Saddam Hussein to sew up Australian wheat sales to Iraq. But it would be a different story if the AWB was ever linked to live exports.

The Gold Coast-based Halal Kind Meats is off to the backblocks of Queensland and West­ern Australia to look for Australian slaughter­ing opportunities. Dozens of Australian abatt­oirs have closed since the live export trade boomed in the 1990s. Kindness to animals is part of the Australian 'fair go' tradition.

Labor appears more concerned with the future of Australia's livestock trade overseas than banning the practice.
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Tuesday, 20 February 2007 10:46:56 AM
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Friday, 23 February 2007 11:02:34 AM
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"Many ordinary people hearing names like LandMark and Westfarmers DONT connect that with anything in particular."

Perhaps some living in blissfull unawareness on the Gold Coast
don't, but for the rest of us its common knowledge.

Rojo wrote a great post. Anyone who knows anything about farming,
is well aware that Landmark is owned by AWB and that Landmark
act as livestock agents for live exporters too. Its never been
a secret, ever!

As for what money went back to the Saddam regime, it was their
own money that went back to them, not farmers money or Landmark
money. Those costs were added to the bill, if you understand the
figures. Interesting that 2000 companies were involved in the
kickbacks story, many American, yet so far a huge scene has only
been made about 1 or 2 of them.

As to what was written in the Gold Coast Bulletin by some
reader, why should anyone care what they think?
Posted by Yabby, Friday, 23 February 2007 11:52:47 AM
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Your claims of 99% are untrue your flood of words trying to convince others is made meaningless by such untruths.
You are a minor part of a very small forever minority.
regards but truth matters.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 23 February 2007 2:30:05 PM
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This thread is not! about live exports.

There are serious issues to be addressed regarding Sentors and Ministers not disclosing information onto the public.

At a public enquiry ALL the facts should be disclosed as the public pay for it.

This was not done by the Shadow Minister of Trade at the time despite that particular issue being aired on 60 minutes just days before hand.
Lets say for eg the public enquiry had been into health concerns in private hospitals shall we.

Perhaps he or she had private interests in private hospitals.

Does a Minister or Shadow Minister have a duty to disclose all the information to the public.?

Especially when the public are footing the bill for the enquiry.?


THE RSPCA may had the answer for fed­eral Labor politicians struggling to galv­anise voters with the AWB bribery scandal.
Here was his big chance to grab the public attention. This was the moment he had waited for. When I called his office his staff told me he was having a hard time to get any media attention

It must of been tempting considering the 60 minutes had just had aired.
At last he had something the media and public wanted to know about wanted to know about.
AWB was the biggest thing in the country at that time.
More importantly the public were paying his wage. The only question that remains is this?
Why didnt the Shadow Minister of Trade inform the for public?

Should we pass a bill to ensure we the public who pay their wages are informed?
Recent Comments from mr Rudd State- "I understand these things".

What if it was an enquiry into child care and the Senator had an interest in child care?
The sooner donations to political party's are made public the better for the Australian public
Speaking of feeding the chooks.
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Friday, 23 February 2007 2:32:11 PM
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paleif,
It's hard to beleive your thread is not about live exports when it begins "Rudd won't Ban live sheep exports" but I'll humour you.
Perhaps Mr Rudd,or whoever received your correspondence, realised the insignificance of such a connection. The AWB purchase of Landmark was NO secret. At around $800 million it may have been on the front page of the financial review, it certainly featured in it.

Yabby is correct in saying that any kickback money came from the Iraq regime in the first place through inflated wheat prices, a portion returned via transport invoices.
Keeping up with current affairs helps when you attempt to twist stories to suit yourself. Part of the "less egg on your face" principle.
Posted by rojo, Friday, 23 February 2007 8:29:49 PM
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Rojo

I am sick of you changing your post "names"
Landmark Westfarmers AWB are just names to the public. Few would connect AWB.

AWB enquiry was about connections to kick backs.
All the public heard was it was about the wheat board.
What the public didnt know was the wheat board also took over live animal exports. As it was a number two topic right at that time second only to the AWB enquiry it is reasonably to ask the Shadow Minister Of Trade why he kept silent.
I am sure the public as the reporter stated might have been very interested.
Aussies probably could not have cared less much about the money for kick backs about wheat but- if AWB had been publicly linked to the cruel live Export Trade it would have been different.
The one with egg on his face is Kevin Rudd
If he wont tell the public the whole truth about the AWB enquiry becuase as he said- He understands, what else will he keep Mum about.
Its not up to him to decide what the public may or may not care about but it is up to him as opposition to inform them about something that was such a huge issue at the time.
The other problem as I see it was that it was not even a smart move
I think we need our Prime Minister to be A more open
B A lot Smarter.
We as people need some bills past to make sure these people do their job. Not what suits their agenda or fits in with their life style.
I am no fan of Howards but at least hes smarter- We need someone with the experience and the backbone to stand up.
Come on how would you like Rudd as a mate? Perhaps we should ask the last two he stabbed in the back
Who ever said I was a Howard Fan must be on something.
He did the same thing now didnt he?
He didnt disclose this to the public either.
The difference is he got away with it.
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Friday, 23 February 2007 9:37:04 PM
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Paleit, I think the real problem is your jumping to conclusions
about what Kevin Rudd said. Yes to some degree he does
understand these issues. As a kid, he grew up on a farm,
in pretty poor conditions. They did it tough. They knew
what it was like to have city people try to boss them around,
so he might well have some understanding of the effect that
some, who want to close down the live trade, can have on
the livelyhoods of tens of thousands of farmers.

Kevin can clearly empathise with struggling farmers, having
been through the same in his childhood.

Rojo is correct. The live trade was simply not an issue
in the AWB discussion. It was already public knowledge,
nothing to reveal, except to a few badly informed people,
but thats not Kevin's problem, its their problem, in this
case your problem.

Yes AWB own Landmark, yes they act as agents for some
farmers, big deal, so what? There is simply nothing there
to expose or get your knickers in a twist about. It was
and is, common knowledge!

When it comes to intelligence, frankly I think that Kevin
leaves Simon and Kim for dead! Clearly many Aussies agree
with me, judging by the polls.
Posted by Yabby, Friday, 23 February 2007 10:47:02 PM
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Yabby

Hes not Robinson Cruso or the only one who grew up on farm.
Simply fact is he did not inform the public. It which was front line news at the very same time. He was sent copies at the same time the media were. They waited for his repose. Now how many Shadow ministers dodge! the media Yabby that you know? [ big mistake]
Green, silly.
He had a job to be the opposition Minister of Trade.
You may think he is bright and quite frankly that does not surprise me. I prefer Peter Beattie who runs rings around him both as a man a mate a leader
That aside -[except to a few badly informed people,
but thats not Kevin's problem, its their problem,] Your words.

You know very well the average person going about their day to work and picking up kids from school has bugger all idea about which company owns interests in live animal exports.

They mostly all oppose it but really would not have a darn clue who or whom owns and runs the discusting trade.

That is why they work hard to pay the leader of the opposition for Trade to keep them informed. AWB was a big enquiry and he knew.!
Thats sneaky and down right dishourable. In a way its good I suppose because at least the public can form their own minds now as to his not informing them.
I think it would be fair to say many will form their own view. Thats only going to highlight the conflict of interest across the board.
I mean you have got Gorden Nuttle with his personal interests and look how angry the public are about that.
He may well understand the way things are done in china Yabby but Aussies dont like cover ups.
Especially when they are paying for a enquiry.
Anyway your a bit Rich. You are on record complaining about the Uns buggerying up plants and now your pro Labour.
Thats a bit of a double standards isnt it?
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Friday, 23 February 2007 11:46:24 PM
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"Anyway your a bit Rich. You are on record complaining about the Uns buggerying up plants and now your pro Labour.
Thats a bit of a double standards isnt it? "

You are putting words into my mouth. I am not a party person,
but an issues person and judge individuals how I find them.
Yup, I judge Kevin to be a smart fellow, far smarter then alot
of other politicians, like umm Simon or Kim. What party they
belong to is not what I am about.

Regarding alleged cover ups, you still don't get it. Nothing
was covered up. The Landmark-AWB story was in every
Australian paper at the time. AWB wanted a reason to exist,
in case the single desk story failed, so they bought Landmark,
who run around 400+ stores for farm supplies etc. Anyone who
read the financial press or rural press, knew all about it.

If some people are too busy watching "Days of our Lives" or whatever
on tv, you can't now accuse Kevin Rudd of a cover up, simply
your own problem of being badly informed and not bothering to
read the press in front of your nose.

So there is no issue where you claim that there is one. Thats
your problem and your lack of reading the press, not Kevin's
problem. Fair is fair, don't blame others for your mistakes!
Posted by Yabby, Saturday, 24 February 2007 12:43:18 AM
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I'd like to get your opinion on something, Yabby. From some of my earlier posts, you may recall that I regard you as someone who basically knows what he's talking about on the live exports issue and as someone who is worth listening to, rather than endlessly arguing with.

I hate the live export trade and wish that it was not happening. When I'm 30 minutes drive up the road from where I live, I sometimes see the sheep trucks on their way to Fremantle Port. And I see some of the animals already suffering, with their legs sticking out of the truck rails. And their terrible journey has hardly even begun.

When I spent a few years as WA Wheatbelt manager for an insurance company in the 1970s, I got to know many farmers as friends, not just as clients. And I know that farmers in general have caring attitudes towards animals. But they have to survive in what can be a very difficult industry in all sorts of ways. And right now I accept absolutely that suddenly banning live exports would be financially disastrous for a huge number of WA farmers.

What I would like your opinion on is this, Yabby. Can you see a long term feasible strategy for at least winding down the numbers involved in live exports? And make the situation more acceptable for those animals which are still being exported live?
Posted by Rex, Saturday, 24 February 2007 8:36:17 AM
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Rex, thanks for your post, its a welcome change. Lots of people
comment on those legs, so I did some experiments. All is not what
it seems. Imagine yourself standing on the back of a moving truck,
with no support from any side. As that truck starts, stops, corners
etc, you would fall about. Its the same with sheep. You'll find that
a pen only half full, is far worse for the animals,as they do tend
to then have no support. Yet I've packed pens to only 70% and
still had lambs stick their legs out. Thinking back to when we were
kids on the school bus, we used to do the same!

Quite alot could happen in the meat industry, but frankly right now
its a bit of a disaster just to keep the wheels on the present
cart, without even thinking of the live export sheep. Beef cattle
have been waiting for weeks for slaughter space, as nobody is trucking
them East this year. T&R are ready to invest 40 million in a new
works, but this State Govt does not seem to give a hoot about
agriculture, so I doubt that its now going to happen. IMHO this
govt is riding high on the mining boom, so farming has been written
off, they will still get re elected.

We could do quite alot, if there was a Govt willing to do more then
put up red tape, but I can't see that happening in the near
future. So the outlook for the meat industry and the farmers
who supply it, is not so bright at the present time, I am sad to
say.
Posted by Yabby, Saturday, 24 February 2007 10:27:50 AM
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Thank you for your response, Yabby. I'll comment on your suggestion that the present WA govt isn't particularly interested in the farming sector. I can certainly understand that when a situation, like farming, is full of hard and uncertain choices, then it's easy to relegate it to the "too hard basket". Particularly when you are seen to be doing very well in the mining/resources sector.

I'm a long time member of the WA Greens. Just a member, not an official, or hard worker for "the cause". And I don't necessarily agree with all the policies or priorities either. But I've been around for a long time.

I live in the state electorate of Rockingham. As you will be aware, we recently had a by-election in the adjacent seat of Peel. I involved myself in this by-election on behalf of the Greens. Both Labor [who as expected got home in Peel] and Liberal had significantly reduced primary votes, whilst the Greens secured a very good result, easily their best yet in this area. I believe that the Greens will be able to increasingly have some influence on the state Labor government, ie we'll be seen as needed to help secure the required result for some Labor candidates.

I'm pragmatic by nature, as are quite a number of Green minded people. We can't afford to be pig-headed about something like immediately trying to ban live exports, but we can think and work towards what many, perhaps most Australians regard as better options. I'd like to think that the Greens can have a beneficial effect on the state Labor govt policies in this respect. But I readily admit that I don't know enough about the nitty-gritty of this subject.

In the event that the Greens can have a level headed influence on the Carpenter govt, either now or after the next state election, then do you have any suggestions?
Posted by Rex, Saturday, 24 February 2007 11:20:41 AM
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Rex, I actually don't have a problem with Alan Carpenter, I think
he's a smart fellow. If he was Minister for Agriculture, things
might well be very different.

The present debacle is really about what happened in the past.
Before 2000, the Meat Commission, with such people as Laurie
Connel on its board, had a monopoly on lamb exports from WA.
The result was a disaster, nobody else bothered to invest in
sheepmeat processing, for obvious reasons.

Monty House eventually deregulated the industry and facilitated
the setting up of one modern plant in WA, namely Fletchers.
The present Minister for Ag was dead against it. What is needed
is a second modern, efficient plant, monopolies are unhealthy.
T&R are willing to do that, but they need some facilitation.
But if the present guy did it, he would have egg all over his
face perhaps, because of the past. So hopefully he'll retire as
soon as possible and they'll put a new person in there. There
is just a lack of talent on both sides of politics in WA right
now, I'm sorry to say.

So I think its politics and egos holding things up in the WA
meat industry.

Long term, if you want a large, efficient meat industry, selling
to the third world, paying first world wages, then you need to
mechanise big time and get rid of all those taxes and charges
which apply at the moment, or you will never have an industry
to replace live exports
Posted by Yabby, Saturday, 24 February 2007 2:00:58 PM
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paleif,
"I am sick of you changing your post "names" "
What do you mean?

The AWB enquiry was specifically about it's dealings with Iraq in regard to the "oil for food" progarm. It was not an enquiry into AWB in general. This is why "live exports" are irrelevent.
Unless your detective skills can uncover that the sheep were part of the oil for food progarm too.
Posted by rojo, Saturday, 24 February 2007 2:35:58 PM
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THE RSPCA had the answer for fed­eral Labor politicians struggling to galv­anise voters with the AWB bribery scandal.

The recent 60 Minutes program on Channel 9 revealing cruelty on Australian cattle in the Middle East hit a nerve.

Not that the RSPCA was surprised by the strong response from Australians outraged at endemic cruelty in the live export trade.

Many Australian voters may not give two hoots about $300 million in kickbacks to Saddam Hussein to sew up Australian wheat sales to Iraq. But it would be a different story if the AWB was ever linked to live exports.

The Gold Coast-based Halal Kind Meats is off to the backblocks of Queensland and West­ern Australia to look for Australian slaughter­ing opportunities. Dozens of Australian abatt­oirs have closed since the live export trade boomed in the 1990s. Kindness to animals is part of the Australian 'fair go' tradition.

Labor appears more concerned with the future of Australia's livestock trade overseas than banning the practice.

I think the reporter said it all.

Kevin Rudd was contacted for a comment and considering it was all over the media at the time it was the chance he needed to grab the publics attention.

Remember I did not open this thread up to discuss the live Animal export trade. I can do that anywhere. In fact many posters are aware we have had several threads regarding this issue.
You can find them by clicking on and doing a search under. Church leaders turn Their backs On Animal Welfare- Alternatives To Live Exports-And there are several others.

If you have any thoughts as to if all Ministers and especially leaders of oppostion should inform the public about current issues that would be great.

re Your question what we discovered. perhaps you might like to contact Mark Vaile or Downers office and ask what was passed on in 2003.
Please be aware they tend to have short memories.
in the mean time please try to stay on post. That would be appreciated
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Saturday, 24 February 2007 3:54:52 PM
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Thanks again for your response, Yabby. I don't have the background knowledge on our current state ag minister which you have, but [for other reasons] I do regard him as an embarrassment to our state Premier and govt and not fit to hold a ministerial portfolio.

With all the potential problems which Alan Carpenter has had to rush back to, I wouldn't want to try and do anything immediately to distract him from sorting out some of the incredibly stupid people in his own ranks. But I would be very interested in putting a proposal to Greens leader in the WA Senate Giz Watson in regard to practical steps to reduce our dependance on the live export trade.

I would certainly appreciate it if you could help me in putting a suitable proposal together. If you would do this, then I would undertake to run any proposal past you before submitting it to Giz, to avoid any possibility of inadvertently misrepresenting anything which you may have suggested.

If you would like to co-operate with me on this, then I'll be happy to post my email address.
Posted by Rex, Saturday, 24 February 2007 4:41:39 PM
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Rex, your proposal makes far more sense then waving placards on
wharves, just wanting to shut everything down, with farmers
being the losers. My email is bonobo@westnet.com.au
Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 25 February 2007 3:34:00 AM
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paleif, It is becoming less clear what youir post is about. On one hand you state "Kevin Rudd, will not ban live exports if elected". I fail to see how this could be anything other than the obvious. Yet you say it is not about live exports.
Your second point, that you maintain is the purpose of your thread, is that you informed the labor party of the fact that AWB, through Landmark, has links to live exports. And that Labor conspired to cover up the secret Landmark purchase by AWB that you felt you blew wide open.
Two distinct problems with your arguement: Landmark deal was no secret. The AWB enquiry was about wheat.
Why on earth would anyone feel the need to link AWB to live exports unless their express wish was to discredit the live export industry. It would be pointless to discredit AWB further, what are the public going to do stop buying wheat?
Posted by rojo, Sunday, 25 February 2007 11:21:44 AM
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Kevin Rudd is heading for the hills no not running away from the people against everything he is bound for the hills of the ACT and for a long stay.
Keven has a plan for Australia and an awareness you just can not please some people.
Live sheep will travel in ships or planes always, some country's need to kill their own because of religious belief.
Some would not some could not buy chilled meat.
Australia's farmers are not my enemy's and should not have pests telling half truths about them.
Nope not in the National party Angus and Brangus, and not named after a breed of cattle just country Labor on a mission fair go for our drought stricken sheep and farmers .
99% gee I laughed and laughed all weekend ,how much more is untrue? you have to ask the question.
Posted by Belly, Monday, 26 February 2007 7:35:41 AM
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Kevin has a plan i would like to see that. We labor has its next conference he will be told the plan, policies anyone.

Be an obedient person and keep sprouting your spin, then report back to your master the labor party.
Posted by tapp, Monday, 26 February 2007 10:00:22 AM
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Media Release

24 February 2006
Australian Muslims Are Against Animal Cruelty

The President of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils, Dr. Ameer Ali
today called on the Australian media not to act irresponsible in misinforming the
Australian public about the real reasons for live exports.

Dr. Ameer Ali said that Muslims are primarily concerned to ensure that the animal is slaughtered in accordance with the Islamic Shariah, and that can be done in Australia under the Australian Government supervised Muslim Slaughter Program (AGSMS) and we want the Australian public to know that we do not agree to animal cruelty.

He further said that Muslims in the Middle Eastern countries readily accept
Frozen and chilled lamb and mutton from Australia, once it is Halal certified
under the program. Last year Australian lamb meat exports to the Middle East was up 36% to a record of 14,052 tonnes, and Australian mutton meat export to the middle East was up 24% in the same period to 36,051 Tonnes (ref. Farmonline News 1 Feb 2006). This represents the equivalent of more than 2 million sheep which were slaughtered in Australia for Middle Eastern Muslim customers

Dr. Ali said that the Australian Muslims does not support the cruel treatment of animals prior to slaughter, that has been documented in Egypt as the Qur`an dictates that animals should be treated with kindness.

Dr. Ameer Ali, President
Dr. Munir Hussain, Chairman, Halal Committee
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Monday, 26 February 2007 11:25:10 AM
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The issue is not my considered view that we can only change things from government.
It is not the Greens intent to never be on those bench's we debate.
It is the fact most Australians, not the 99% claimed on another side here but most.
Are asking for better transport conditions not an end to live sheep exports.
why? why is it so often those who say others are using spin who are in fact the ones doing so?
Posted by Belly, Monday, 26 February 2007 3:47:15 PM
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I'm not aware of the ins and outs of this issue, though I find it interesting you're hammering Rudd on the issue, when Howard's had a decade to do something about it and hasn't.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Monday, 26 February 2007 4:54:19 PM
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Yeah howard had his time and so has labor and they still dont get it at state level.

Suprisingly the people do get it so we will have a nice little policy for you all in a fortnight on Animal Welfare, which is something else we have been working on.

Part done so it will be a ripper.
It takes guts to do what is right
So we say no to blind obedience to your master.

www.tapp.org.au
Posted by tapp, Monday, 26 February 2007 7:20:21 PM
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PALE
Would like to thank Rex for his sensible approach and Yabby also. While quitley staying in the background we would like to offer funds, contacts with Malaysian Government reps and Islamic leaders. Yabby will tell you we need three things Rex
A Government to cut red tape
B Someone who is prepaired to put some serious money into it.
C Let us bring in some Halal Slaughtermen to train others.
D Being the most! important- direct contacts with Aussie farmers in WA.
That is something only Yabby can perhaps help you with.
Here is a proposal to Government from Muslim leaders.
http://www.halakindmeats.com/submissions.html

I wont interupt you again Rex just wanted you to know people are willing to assist.
Thank you Yabby!

Reply to others.
No the answer is- This thread was about Kevins refusal to comment on the connection between AWB considering live exports was at the same time number two on the media next to AWB.
However I am personally delighted Rex and Yabby are talking.

[in reply to other poster]
Howard has! been taken to tasks by us and others. So has Steve Feilding.
Its not only an attack on just Kevin.

No I sincerly believe he had a right to inform the public as Shadow Minister for trade.

All ministers should disclose things to public [that are in the public eye especially.]

The average family knows stuff all about Landmark, they are too busy working and driving kids to school.

Labour were a huge! cause for Live Exports. The unions made it impossibly for us to even break even at plants. Vaile and Downer saw a good break with the trade dollar.
If you think I given Kevin a hard time look at our posts on Church leaders.
Tap. Interesting. Look foward to it.
Labour you largely created live animal exports so do the right thing and support alternatives to faze out live exports by year 2010.
That would also be a vote for jobs for Australia especially country towns.
Its called a policy.
And for goodness sake stop hiding behind Andrew
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Monday, 26 February 2007 10:03:48 PM
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Yabby continues to claim that Australian farmers are spending money in the Middle East to prevent animal cruelty in those countries. Since Australian farmers do not spend money to prevent animals suffering in Australia, I request a "please explain" from Yabby.

Country gal responds to Yabby by claiming that animal welfare groups "nuts" should be setting up in the middle east to prevent animal cruelty.

Animal welfare groups are non-profit, voluntary organisations, with limited funding. They are not cashed up like our farmers who blatantly refuse to acknowledge their complicity in animal cruelty.

Country Gal reckons AW groups should pay for the heinous torture of our animals which is condoned, endorsed and perpetrated by Australian farmers and the ME barbarians?

Gawd, could the real "nuts" please stand up?
Posted by dickie, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 4:54:22 PM
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"Since Australian farmers do not spend money to prevent animals suffering in Australia,"

Frankly Dickie, thats a load of bollocks and shows me that as
a city slicker, you don't know the first thing about farming
or farmers! Do you know how many farmers have close to
gone broke, trying to buy feed to help their animals get
through this drought for instance?

If you spent just a little more time with farmers, you would
soon find out that a great deal of them actually do care a great
deal about the welfare of their animals.

If you want to know what farmers spend in the Middle East,
ask MLA what their animal welfare budget is each year and
how its spent. Thats all documented. Thats farmers money.
Every time we sell an animal, we pay a levy for exactly that
purpose.

AFAIK, the people who work for animal welfare groups
are paid wages in many cases. Have a look at what the
average livestock farmer earns, its about average wages.
Wages are a profit for labour. So people who work for
animal welfare groups and who are paid wages, are making
a profit for their labour. So are farmers, only they
often don't even get that, in a drought.
Posted by Yabby, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 8:33:02 PM
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It's very simple as to how we actually do something about this barbaric practice. We elect into the senate as many One Nation people as we can.

I can assure you that we in One Nation abhor this outrageous unacceptable trade. I'm not talking about how people in the middle east treat these animals, I'm talking about the rank cruelty of live exporting of these poor unfortunate creatures.

Ian j
Posted by Ian j, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 8:45:10 PM
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One Nation
I didnt know you are registered again.
Since i noticed that only the NSW division is registered on the AEC website.

I take it your policy on animal welfare will be out soon.

The Question one has to ask why is it that Pauline is running as an independant than with one nation, bad blood, Bad executive, maybe cant trust anyone.

Interesting.
Posted by tapp, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 9:11:01 PM
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Yabby I agree.


Lets ask Peter Costello to go one step further to ensure ALL funds raised from the kind public go to the Animals.
Enlarge pens and build yards and supply more inspectors. Fund Free Range Pork Farms, Poultry Farms by expanding already exsisting intensive ones and train our youth how to run them.

Lets include all NFP organisations. Church based organisations as well.

The barrister looking after the Red cross appeal for Farm Hand Appeal a few years ago said this> Quote. 'Let me tell you right now--- Not One cent of that money is going towards buying feed for stock.'unquote. Mmm but they showed heaps of footage of dying animals and the public dug deep!

Two weeks ago I spoke with the Red Cross about their appeal and they relied that they had not thought about it.

You know and I know that Farmers dont ask for charity.

They would rather hide their starving stock out the back paddock and cry than let even the neighbour see it as the neighbour does liksewise.

MLA are funded by levies and the Government fifty x fifty Yabby.
The trade dollars of course comes into it big time.
Many people on those boards you mentioned have huge conflicts of interests.
So if MLA are funded half by the tax payer then the tax payers ought to have half of the say.
I have spoken to the head of MLA both here and in the Middle East and I assure you live exports are tax payer funded.
.
Your correct about aproaching State Governments. You are correct regarding the problem of allowing us to bring in trained staff.

They dont want to help because of the political kick backs votes and trade dollar.[ not to mention donations to political partys]
.
Animal groups dont get the fact that farmers are just as much victims of the National party as the animals. They have sold them out and flooded the country with cheap imports.
Because Animals groups dont understand they attack the farmers making it worse.
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 9:58:47 PM
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"MLA are funded by levies and the Government fifty x fifty Yabby."

Wendy, you are free to check out the MLA budget. What is funded
is 50% of r&d. That includes many industry programmes at various
universities, into things like nutrition, plant breeding etc.

Not all levies collected by MLA are funded fifty fifty, thats
the point. But check for yourself.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 9:42:04 PM
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Yabby

50% 50% funding and they had to change it to the wording research uni pay off boys club AVA . Whatever

50% of thats is public money!

Here is some more research.
A Letter From A Oil Rigger first and then we will talk MLA and university donations. Hey lets do Landmark too. That could be real interesting.

Dear Yabby
“I worked in the Arabian Gulf on an offshore drilling rig for many years and have seen these ships carrying these sheep go past on a regular basis. You can smell these ships long before they come over the horizon, and for days afterward dead sheep would be floating past the rig, this is because the tide runs in a circular motion.

We could not understand why there were so many sheep tossed into the sea on a single day, until we saw a couple of them trying to swim, then we realised that this must have been the final clear out of those animals that would not have passed inspection, or would have died before sale.

Unless you have lived in the Middle East, you can have no comprehension of the people or customs or conditions that exist in that area.

To say that you have to send sheep live because there is no refrigeration is absolute Crap! There are supermarkets there just as there are here, and they sell frozen meat of every description.

I have seen an animal killed in the back streets of one of these countries and it was not a pretty sight. I only saw one and do not wish to see another. That poor sheep was being skinned with its throat only half cut, hanging up by its heels. The fate of some of these animals can only be described as being horrific.

There is no way that anyone with any sense of decency could ever condone the live animal trade! Not only is it cruel beyond belief, it is also economic stupidity. The fate that falls to some of these animals is indescribable and horrific.
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 11:56:45 PM
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PALE CALLS FOR PUBLIC ENQUIRY INTO AUSTRADE and MLA

Breaking Rural News : AGRIBUSINESS AND GENERAL

Aust's key role in Pakistan rural revival
By JAMES NASON In Lahore, Pakistan - Australia
Wednesday, 28 February 2007

Austrade believes work by Australian businesses to help develop rural Pakistan will lead to serious market payoffs well into the future - for Pakistan and for Australia.

Better management practices and better animal and plant genetics will mean more money in the pockets of Pakistan! farmers.

In turn, that will mean greater opportunities for superior genetics, nutrition sources and know-how skills from! Australia.

Australia is already on the front foot in the Pakistan market after the Pakistan Government and Nestle - the country’s biggest dairy processor - hand picked Australia as the country from which to source its first live shipment of superior dairy genetics.

Those 2200 cattle are now effectively serving as Australian ambassadors.

The Pakistan Government is eager to boost this rural surge, because it needs a far more productive agricultural sector to feed its massive population, which is expected to double! within 25 years.

As a sign of the changes! taking place, this year Nestle’s milk factory in Pakistan will become its biggest milk factory in the world, processing 300 tonnes of milk every day.

“Australia enjoys a number of key advantages in Pakistan, including highly respected livestock and agricultural expertise, a clean, green disease free-status, and relatively similar climatic conditions.

"AND THEY CALL US THE CLEVER COUNTRY."

Austrade and Mark Vaile in the past have refused to assist in promoting Australia and Australian Farmers. HKM sort assistance from Austrade to invite Pakistan and other countries to work here! in Australia at grass root levels with Aussie Farmers.
They refuse any progects that might upset the cruel live animal exporters.

Austrade your job is to do both. Your jobs is to promote new business into Australia from other countries NOT the other way around


Well Austrade you have no problems doing just that so long as it is to benefit other countries. Too bad the the animals and jobs for Australians.
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Thursday, 1 March 2007 8:56:33 AM
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Wendy its not 50% whatever. Its 50% of money spent here in universities and research institutions etc, so benefits all
Aussies, right here in Australia.

You seem so obsessed with this topic, that you refuse
to look at the big picture. There is actually a push on
by ME Govts, to have more and more livestock slaughtered
in abattoirs, rather then backyard butchering. That makes
perfect sense too. All that blood and guts lying around
cities and towns is rather messy.

Just a few weeks ago, there was an article in a hobby farmer
magazine, telling Aussie hobby farmers how to cut a sheep's
throat and butcher it for themselves. Just because there
are no AA video cameras diligently observing all this, as
they do in the Middle East, so you really think things
are so different right here? Think again.

I remind you of the new standards that apply to live sheep
ships. If live animals were thrown overboard, the operators
would lose their license immediately and be out of business.

But you won't look at that big picture, ok whatever, thats
your problem.

Fact is NOBODY has proposed a workable alternative. As we
saw in the last drought, the moment supply increased,
the market collapsed and farmers were left to give their
livestock away, so lacked resources to buy feed for their
remaining stock. The live trade really did come to the
rescue of many farmers and sheep
Posted by Yabby, Thursday, 1 March 2007 9:46:47 AM
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Blind obedience to my master tapp? I have no master is the party you vote for your master?
Blind fighting for a one sided view is wasteful and childlike.
This issue remains one of welfare.
Of the sheep, the farmers, Australian exports and trade balance.
And for some in this thread this fight has to be a defense of reality.
he fate of these sheep if the small minority who do not value truth is to rule is a wasteful death in the paddock.
Again few could ague country Labor is closer to farmers needs than the defunct national party who should change its name to miners party soon.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 1 March 2007 6:24:19 PM
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Blind obedience
lets see due to labor NSW will end up in recession why blind obedience.
Newcastle is starting to wake up that just because they always have doesnt mean they have too.

Blind obedience
I see more here about labor and liberal than the other partys, why

When people decide that there are more than liberal and labor then their monopoly will be gone but due to the smaller parties already in bed with the big boys well what hope is there.

So me i vote for independance and that is what The Australian Peoples Party is about.

When people decide enough is enough instead of oh we have to vote labor or liberal no you dont.

Its about choice and that is the Truth and my Word.
Posted by tapp, Thursday, 1 March 2007 6:45:56 PM
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A bit of a nudge away from the thread but it demands an answer.
Within Australia's two party preferred party's we have room for every one.
I feel threatened to see our upper houses finding more small party's small views no understanding of the wants and wishes of most Australians.
This thread is evidence for my case.
Farmers are not the enemy's of average Aussies , they bleed they get sick , and they help this country stay afloat.
Few are looking at his issue from their point of view and even from the sheep's viewpoint.
Some constantly refer to the possibility of more jobs killing sheep here, yet in truth not one job would come from an end to exports.
Some will not eat food we kill some could not pay for food we kill,
The issue is best served by better travel conditions not dream time insults to the real world.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 2 March 2007 5:58:06 AM
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Oh Yabbs
You really are a lot of fun and lets face it without you we would not have been able to keep the other side alive.- So thanks. We have been away and leaving again.\ Outback mustering- yeh the city chicks terrible aint it.
I look forward to reading your comments on our return
Mean time NOBODY from PALE is disagreeing with you.
Yeh sure the live export is saving the farmers. Thats the way it was meant to be seen by the farmers. AND Yes the Animal Libbers are making it worse by picking on farmers.
Sure We agree.
So lets get the right info out there so we can push for more plants in Australia.
Come on Yabby this bloke up here for get twelve bucks for his goat which is then sold on to the live export trade for 72 isnt get much of a go now is he?
The Muslims are not getting a fair deal either. the dam goats sure as hell not.
When the farners and the Animal Libber start putting the blame where it is- vaile Trade push and Downers and wen we get some real opposition then we can all be happy.
See you when I return and by a good boy- if you can
or You can always come mustering with us and show us how its done[smile]
Talk about subs later Mmm Look forward to it
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Saturday, 3 March 2007 1:02:42 PM
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"Come on Yabby this bloke up here for get twelve bucks for his goat which is then sold on to the live export trade for 72 isnt get much of a go now is he"

Clearly your bloke was done like a dinner by a trader. If he was
a WA sheep farmer, live exporters would have offered him 60$,
compared to 10-15$ by local processors. I know of exactly one
processor who thinks that WA farmers should obtain a better return
for their livestock. All the rest seem to collude to buy their
animals as cheaply as possible, bugger the farmers.

I judge people by what they do, not what they say. It cannot be
denied that live exporters have looked after farmers, local processors have largely tried to screw them.

So you are off mustering. I am sure that the outback can handle
a few tourists. Remember, there might not be a plug for the
hairdryer :)
Posted by Yabby, Saturday, 3 March 2007 7:52:12 PM
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Yabby,
That is quite a price differential. No farmer should be expected to subsidise new processing plants by accepting lower prices than are available elsewhere. If the prospects for further Australian processing are as rosy as some declare, then when built they will absorb those animals destined for the Live export trade. If the price is right.
If animal rights groups wish to subsidise the price differential between what processors and exporters offer then that's OK with me.

I see the thread ended up on Live exports after all.
Posted by rojo, Saturday, 3 March 2007 8:17:29 PM
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Very Funny Yabby- I will amuse myself with you in the mean time. Tell me something Yabbs. Do you think the represenative of the Federal Ministers office would tell porkies to a bunch of city slicker lawyers?
According to Anne McDonald Peters Advisor who flew up for a meeting not so long ago it was twenty bucks a head- not forty. Or do you think Anne just got it wrong because she probably would not really know Yabby much less care.
Ok lets work on your figures shall we. Forty extra pluss the transport and shipping costs they are throwing in.

Lets say then for argument sake you were a abattoir owner and a importer of live animals in ME shall we?
You would have to secure plenty of retail shops and make a fair bit back from value adding wouldnt you say Yabby. Maybe even export some Halal Meat.

Tell Me Yabby do you have any idea what sort of profit the ME abattoir owners run at?
.
Do you not think that Australias meat is very popular with its clean green image in ME Yabby? Would you agree that many of these ME plant operators are a pretty shrewd lot. Do you not think for one moment they would like to get involved with Aussie farms and Farmers?
Dont you see that Aussie farmers SHLOULD be given the right to meet these people buying their! animals for talks and vise visa.
Cant you see the Government dont want that along with the shipping agent.
No way they want the farmers to pick up on the proffits they make with their sleazy trade dollar deals. So why in the hell dont we yet have a national accreditation for Halal In Australia Huh. Why is that do you reckon.?
I am interested in your reply on this as it will give me a better understanding if you really understand whats behind all this.
I am talking politics here more than animal welfare on this particular post/
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Saturday, 3 March 2007 8:36:43 PM
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Rojo
Yes it did end up on live exports. Are you There Mr Rudd?
Rojo I think your idea of the animal welfare groups putting into the farmers to make up the difference is fantasic. You got my vote.
When the good public give to Animal Welfare groups its to the animals they give and not for people to become fund raisers keeping themselves in cushy jobs. Indeed we could open more plants straight away.

I will ask Yabby and yourself what you think of the idea of asking Peter Costello to make it a law that these funds must go to the animals.
IE The farmers for improving standards. ie The Farmers who choose not to send their animals to an agent that deals in live exports. Ie To Put in the improvements to the piggerys that the ingtensive farms say they cant afford. To have at each Council Of Australia storgae for hay and water to be supplied to the farmers- Simply by them pcking it up when they need it in times as dry as now.
If all the groups give the money to go towards building new plants and the farmers supply some land we are on our way. Personally I would like to shout some farmers a trip to meet with ME live importers. They would be most welcome.
OK What do you both think about writing to Peter Costello/ The public would mostly be onside. I know because I know most people really want to help the animals but dont know what to do.
By the way we DONT pay ourselves and we pay heaps of costs in case your asking.;
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Saturday, 3 March 2007 9:02:18 PM
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Rojo, you are quite correct, there is a huge price difference!
Given that most of these animals now travel on pretty modern
ships and are slaughtered in abattoirs in the ME, farmers
have a pretty good case to defend their livelyhoods!

Wendy, I don't rely on some girl in Canberra for my information.
Mine comes directly from WA farmers, from saleyards here etc.

In Canberra they are all about averages etc. Well the
evidence is clear, WA mutton prices are a long way behind
ES prices (thats an official WA Govt report). If you pulled
the plug on the live trade, well we saw recently what happened
when supply exceeded demand. Farmers were taken to the cleaners!

Wendy, you can dream up all the conspiracy theories that you want.
Fact is, when farmers have to choose between 15-20$ or 60$,
in the middle of a drought, when they have livestock and families
to feed, I rely on the plain as day evidenced numbers, not
the rhetoric. Dream on, but reality does not go away, when
you close your eyes and wish it would
Posted by Yabby, Saturday, 3 March 2007 9:15:16 PM
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Belly
Of course the National Party should change their name top minors party.
Good grief Vaile and Downer had little else to show as exports lets face it.
I tell you now Rudds not the answer. Too cocky to the point of being imature and thats fatal in politics.
Howards knows Aussies hate someone taking something for granted. You all talk of nowhere to send animals in Australia to be slaughtered and them dying of thirst in the drought.
No wonder why this country is going backwards.
For a start if you know there is a good chance of that happening then DONT breed so many.
Second get off your bums and start talking to some of the people DIRECT overseas. Put some land up as share holders if they put in the funds for infatructure and provide halal slaughter trainers.

Try saying hey! we are not sending em live anymore doods. If u what em come over HERE and kill em because we want some of that value adding dollars.!
Yabby I note you declined to answer the questions.

Dont care if its a million bucks a head Australia surley is not so desperate it has to live of blood money from a VILE trade.

Tell you what. I will bring AFIC leaders M Government Reps and Reps from ME if you round some farmers up.
Lets cut out the greedy little ship agents.
Yabby Peter McGauran might just be slightly better informed than you.
Not to mention AFIC.

I see its as I suspected you dont have a clue what plant owners in ME are making. You just read the lies put out by Livecourpe MLA the Government and the shipping agents.

I can actually pick which web page your reading from most of the time.
Then you try to change it around to make it look like you are very informed.

I beleive you do that thinking you will gain attention from neighours and others.
It does but not in the way you think. Beleive me I know.
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Sunday, 4 March 2007 6:14:51 PM
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Thats the problem Wendy, you don't know :)

You can come up with all the theories, all the
guesswork, at the end of the day WA farmers are
overwhelmingly in support of the livetrade,
as its saved their bacon so many times. Thats
the reality.

Now if you or anyone else can come up with
an alternative, so that farmers arn't robbed
blindly for their livestock by local processors,
when supply exceeds demand, stop talking and
show it with $. Then farmers will listen, the
rest is dreaming.

As we can show, its not a vile trade, but you
don't want to hear about that of course.

When the mutton indicator prices dropped to
50-60c a kg or 10-12$ for a 20kg carcass, whilst
live shippers were paying 60 bucks, is well documented.
Now you tell me thats all not true, because of
some woman in Canberra. Hehe.
Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 4 March 2007 8:00:39 PM
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Yabby

Right Your on.

You say you can get a few farmers together then please!do it.

The farmers can sit and talk direct with Malaysian delegates and name their own price.

AFIC leaders would be to introduce them to Australia.

The farmers can put up whatever they like at the meeting.

Any farmer or person happy with an arrangement to open more plants will have his chance to demand what they demand.

We will take on the red tape and staff problem with the Government.

You Yabby -You might just get a handsome agents fee for introductions.

To add a bonus and no doubt make your day- I wont even attend.

Hows that for a deal.

The only person I would like to see there of a political nature might be Simon Crean. 'I said Might'.
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Sunday, 4 March 2007 8:28:34 PM
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Wendy, I don't want any fees lol. I am simply telling you
the reality of the situation here, in West Australia,
as farmers see it. This year for instance, they supplied
around 1 million Hajj lambs, mostly merinos, 35kg
liveweight, which were slaughtered in abattoirs in
Mecca and Medina. They sold them for 60 bucks.
I doubt it any local processor would offer 20 bucks for
those lambs, that includes Fletcher.

If the Malaysians want to build a plant here, then the
State Govt should facilitate it for them. Thats what
I have been calling for : for the State to appoint
a facilitator for the meat industry, given the clear
evidence that livestock values in WA are well behind
those of the Eastern States.

But it won't happen whilst Kim Chance is Minister for
Ag. He fought the help given to Fletcher all the way,
when he was in opposition.
His ego would be damaged, if he was to change tune
now. Thats the problem as I see it. Meantime so
many Ministers are being fired from the Govt over the
Burke affair, that there is really nobody left to replace
him, despite his saying he'd like to quit. So its a messy
story in WA, when it comes to politics.
Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 4 March 2007 9:25:05 PM
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Yabby

Thank you for your honest reply. Now I will be just as honest although I wish I didnt have to post it on a public forum.

Yes they will meet with The Government. It doesnt matter who gets in.

Now here is the thing- "only after" they meet the farmers.

They do NOT trust the Australia Government. They want to hear it from the farmers. They want to know what problems they have.

They want to meet the farmers. They do have the funds and the interest.
To be really honest with you we dont need the Government to do this.

These people are so powerful in their own right the Government will want to assist.
Now is a great time because AFIC have just elected Ikabel as President and you couldnt as for a better bloke. So those are my! intructions from the Muslims- Let us meet with the farmers first Wendy. They are afraid the Government will tell them something wrong and effect any chance they have of working with! Aussie Farmers
I have! to do it their way.- Farmers first.
I know you dont want an agents fee Yabby but you couldnt not be paid as it would be a huge insult to them.
Now 'I" cant get farmers in WA to meet with them because I DONT know anybody and! because the libbers have done so much damage all groups are seen as the enermy. You know that.
You must understand PALE is considered a rebel group [ animal killers] and outlawed by all.
I have the contacts and funds I just need to get some farmers to meet them
No big deal Yabby If they dont want to deal with them they can say so.
The bottom line with farmers IS price. I understand that and so do they.
I am just in hope a few might like to try their hand at also being part plant ownners and exporters.

If not thats ok we will just buy stock but they want Halal Vegetables farms and some of them want cosmetics etc.
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Sunday, 4 March 2007 10:08:06 PM
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Wendy, I remind you that farmers interests are represented by
two farming organisations, PGA and WAFF.

If these people really want to meet farmers, those organisations
can make it happen, both would like to see more abattoirs in
WA.

Mind you, you will first have to convince them that you
have any kind of credibility. The internet has made communication
really easy, but its also now full of snakeoil salesmen, peddling
their wares and dreams. They would be aware of that, I would
think.

But farmers are not the problem, if we look at the big picture.
The dire straights of WA politics, despite all the mineral
wealth, is what its all about, sadly, I have to say.
Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 4 March 2007 10:45:25 PM
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Yabby

For the first time I dont really know what to say to you.

If the FF had given us a fair go in the past we would be miles down the track by now.

We have without success tried to get NSWFF QFF and VFF to contact the farmers in the past.

Refused to meet us.

It would be fair to say that the Libbers have done enourmous damage and I guess they switched off before giving us a fair hearing.

Yabby for some time now I have tried to figure out if you know whats "really going' on within the fold.

Many FF Heads, Members Australia wide along with State Government and Federal Government Parliament Ministers advisors have interests in live exports so therefor conflicts of interests.

That aside Yabby I took your advise and left a message for Tim D`Arcy. I was surprised to be honest when he returned my call. We talked for a long time and yes he's personally interested.

There are some Malaysian people going down and he requested I email the others so they can I guess, discuss it - or put it to a vote.

He thought perhaps later I meet with them although I feel its the others that need to be there.

Old habits die hard Yabby and I cant help but say - Lets wait and see.

It would be absolutley fantasic IF?? WAFF arrange farmers to meet with Muslims interested to open plants BUT Maybe hes just smarter than the others.

What with the court case and all maybe he thought they would not say straight out - Not interested.

My gut feeling is this person himself was completly honest and was interested.
After saying that is still changes nothing. My people want to meet farmers first and everybody else second.

If WAFF do invite farmers for talks with delagates we will have you to be very grateful to.

Fingers crossed and thank you Yabby.

Time will tell but A 'sincere' Thanks BUT we still! want direct contact with farmers if you know a few.
Hard to trust
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Monday, 5 March 2007 10:11:34 PM
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