runner
Isn't the God of Israel also the God of Muslims?

I don't think the world is at risk from the "fundie atheist" whatever that means compared to the religious fundamentalists. So far no-one has bombed innocents in the name of atheism. Still much confusion about what atheism is out there in the fundamentalist Christian community. It simply means a lack of belief in the supernatural without evidence.

MC is not the problem, governments need to be much stronger in regard to what is expected from ALL its citizens in rule of law. Many of the problems with Muslim immigration come from fear, some of it exacerbated by the media, some of it based on the actions of a few fundamentalist Muslims, and some of it more urban myth than real.

Muslims also need to come to the party on what it means to be Australian including getting rid of the mindset I witnessed recently on an English program - "You are either a Muslim or not a Muslim" claptrap. This sort of singular and insular attitude does not make one warm to new immigrants and one of the reasons why MC can only work in a truly secular and democratic society otherwise we end up with killing of innocent people based purely on religious differences (such as the recent murder of Christians overseas).

Banjo much of what you say can be laid at the feet of one Culture/religion/political movement,that is in fact one way of life.
Not all I am aware, but are numbers in those others a threat to us,to the western world.
We weaken our case,feed the opposition to it,by not being up front, it is one group feeding the concern I have.
If we split, take on[ and I have no wish to] the whole idea we are beaten by our own words.
Even your claim is not true of 99.9 percent of past migration.
How many understand we are victims of some stupid plan? a plan that considers us an experiment, and thinks in two or three generations we will be one.
I wish those damming us for our views can bring themselves to remember their words in ten years.
It is not for nothing world leaders are saying what we are.
How many of our new migrants are like one recently deported,for teaching terrorism,after 16 years on our dole?
I without fear think we must consider the Australian publics concerns and stop what looks like a UN trial that is never going to work.
One wonderful day all reildgions will be put in the box, yes every one of them intrudes on politics none however like this one
Why should we be pressed by fables into giving up the idea we are all equal.

Dear Runner,

Could you please define what you mean by 'fundie secularist' and explain how they/we are a danger to the rest of society ? Please include in your reply, references to 'open society' and 'inclusive society'.

Thank you,

Joe

Not in the wettest of your dreams, Boaz.

>>Good golly miss molly.. Pericles is on my page :)<<

You even prove it yourself.

>>dare I say it..that [ditch the term "multiculturalism"] is about 99.9% of my position<<

No it isn't. Your position is categorically "Muslims, out", as you remind us.

>>Unfortunately, when some of your religious or political beliefs are in direct conflict with the host country... you either shape up...or BE SHIPPED OUT (as far as I'm concerned)<<

Ahem... "religious beliefs... in direct conflict with the host country?" Let's see...

Commonwealth Of Australia Constitution Act, Section 116

"The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion."

Or are you thinking of a different host country?

I have no problem with the alignment of political beliefs, in that we live in a form of democracy that seems to work, and that the establishment of a theocracy, of whatever flavour, is a Really Bad Idea.

You also pick and choose your examples, Boaz:

>>are you not forgetting that the practice of "Polygamny" has it's roots in "Allah said..."<<

Ummm... you are forgetting Exodus 21, which outlined the rules many centuries before Allah became involved. I'm sure you are fully aware of the verses in question. The ones that include instructions on how to sell your daughter, as well as how to treat your first wife when you marry the next ones.

And Banjo, you need to be more specific:

>>The concept of MC is that it puts original culture ahead of national loyality.<<

That is certainly one description, that I think of as the "wussie PC brigade" version, where a bunch of public servants sit around working out how to be nice to everybody. And failing.

Unfortunately, the same term is used by the "Muslims Out" team. As Boaz has amply demonstrated, it is the veneer covering a rampant "mine is the only religion" views.

Which is why I see continued use of the word "multiculturalism" to be a major part of the problem.

Pericles,
I believe my quote to be self explanatory and needs no further detail.

That is my concept of MC and i also believe MC fosters tribalism as against working toward a cohesive community.

I agree with you that the word 'multiculturalism' needs to be dropped from use, as does the ideology. The term is a misnomer at best.

You may recall the Howard government did that and the Rudd/Gillard government has followed on, up until now. Maybe i was jumping the gun to praise them for that, but we will see what unfolds.

I also recall Gillard promoting a concept called 'social inclusion' I think it was. This was done at a speech she made in Sydney before the 2007 election. I believe she had some people working on it at one point, but nothing further has been heard and no details have come out.

Oh dear,

Poor runner hasn't read his bible.

He goes to great lengths to portray biblical literalists as ignorant drongoes, does he not?

Runner I applaud your efforts to make fundie "christians" look too dumb to vote. The more you do it, the more apparrant it becomes that such views are correctly excluded from serious consideration.

Rusty