Runner

"I would actually hope that those who deny the ugliness of Sharia law, circumcism of young girls, polygamy, the raping of 'meat' the planned attacks on Australian bases, the forming of ghettos would come out of denial. Then again these things a a 'small' price to pay in order to pretend to tolerate the intolerable."

I in no way tolerate female genital mutilation, polygamy, rape, stoning or any other such practice that violates and demeans women and find the insinuation that I do quite offensive. The only way to eradicate such practices is through education and the empowerment of women and much good work is being done and progress made throughout the world. It will only gather pace as oppressed women around the globe further engage with societies such as ours where these practices are not tolerated.

Belly

"Not culture but one religion that is a culture and a political force,that has the power with numbers under 2% to tell us Christmas offends them!"

The majority of Muslims in Australia are not at all interested in telling Australians how to celebrate C/mas. Those who are comprise only a tiny minority, but fortunately for them our commercial media has grabbed hold of their words and sensationalised them out of all proportion. Incidentally, I find it just as offensive to be dictated to on this, as we are every year, by the homegrown religious fraternity.

Loudmouth

"..'culture', anthropologically speaking, is the prettified cover for the power structure in a particular society, which in turn is derived from that society's economic make-up: it is used to justify whatever rules, and whoever rules, and however they rule."

I agree completely. That applies to Western societies as much as any other.

"Some 'cultures' are vicious and contemptible crap on that criterion, some are not."

All 'cultures' contain both good and bad, ours included.

AGIR

BRONWYN.. a very warm (if disagreeable) welcome back!

Unfortunately, it probably will for the most part be disagreeable. You may have changed your alias many times over but your thinking hasn't progressed much at all.

This thread has developed in a them and us thing, whereas the real question is whether or not the European countries will dismantle MC and how will they go about it. Outright changes and tighter controls on immigration will surely lead to serious conflict.

Here in Aus, the Howard government just quietly dropped the concept and the use of the word, and the Rudd/Gillard government has followed this line. I think they have both woken up to the failure of MC and are willing to let it die away quietly.

Will the Europeans do the same, to avoid conflict, or is the MC influence there so great now that a turn around is impossible.

Interesting to see if anything developes from the words spoken by the influencial European leaders.

Can these leaders stop further Islamization of Europe?

Now it seems Holland is on the same wavelength.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2011/02/multiculturalism_has_failed_ve.php

Bronny.. my thinking has not 'progressed' because I am not a 'progressive/socialist'. I have a moral anchor.

You make a couple of noteworthy points:

"The only way to eradicate such practices is through education and the empowerment of women"

Now..that was in relation to polygamy fgm etc. I'd love to explore the presuppositions you hold laying behind that assertion.

You see it as:

Cultural problem.....
Educational solution....

But your presupposition is that let's say "Polygamy" is a bad thing, and that as women are liberated from this oppressive cultural baggage it will dissappear. (correct?)

I'll proceed on the basis of that being the case, and you can correct me next post if I'm wrong.

Ok.. are you not forgetting that the practice of "Polygamny" has it's roots in "Allah said..." also, the subculture where this is found, is a male dominated, controlled society. So there are 2 barriers.
1/ Blokes
2/ Allah

You might be able to overcome 1 by education, but not 2 because if a group of people are convinced that "Allah said thus and so" do you realistically expect such convictions to simply dissappear through secular education ? (considering also that this group has it's own schools)

Love to know your thoughts on that ?

There is a whole lot of smoke being blown here, in the name of what each of us considers to be "multiculturalism".

Some demonstrate blatant "wogs out" posturing:

>>One great DANGER of separate groups in our society is when a trigger event occurs..where the mainstream is one one side and the minority is on another.. this could lead to riots, street blood baths and what not.<<

Boaz echoes Enoch Powell: "As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding. Like the Roman, I seem to see 'the River Tiber foaming with much blood'"

(Enoch's audience was fully aware that he was paraphrasing the Sybil in Aeneid 6, prophesying "Bella, horrida bella, et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno". Would that our politicians today had a tenth of their education... but I digress.)

Point is, there have always been, and always will be, people who fear difference. Not "grudgingly put up with", but genuinely, viscerally fear anything that is different.

Then at the other end of the spectrum are the wussie PC brigade, who would rather dig up their grandma than be accused of being offensive to anyone. These are the folk that the fear-mongers automatically identify with "multiculturalism", and campaign against them accordingly.

My view is that we should summarily ditch the term "multiculturalism", along with all its PC baggage, and instead simply concentrate on two things: being nice to other people (that includes, by the way, tolerating some of the newer immigrants' idiosyncracies), and maintaining the rule of law (that includes, by the way, society's continuing abhorrence of genital mutilation etc.)

There will always be "special interest groups" whose entire existence depends upon their ability to suck at the teat of taxpayer funds. There will be a few in this category who use our money to fund their continuing ghettoisation. These, along with a whole host of similar organizations, who rely for their continuance on tax exemptions of various kinds, I would encourage to do without our charity.

If we can do that, everybody wins.

We are forming two crowds,well a crowd and a small but vocal group.
I am one of the crowd,being splattered by the out fall of Boazy comments I would feel better in the little plastic house on wheels some nice bloke Kevin put out the back.
Yet my mob, so far, look just like any other group, we are not you will find silly, or card carrying members of one nation[ quaint isn't it? them e mailing the Libs?]
Not too many of us hate any one, few are unhappy with any nations people, no lynch mobs here.
Bet most like me would like to see only good for these folk.
More freedom in everything life has to offer, just not here.
But it will be highlighted we,Representatives of MAINSTREAM Australia, are bigoted.
PC is the enemy of good , free speech,and the voice of the people.
I would hope all mankind one day will confront any group, any God and ask why we need so many Gods, why any God should control us 24/7 on every thing we do,and why a blind need to cuddle others blinds some to the pain inflicted on the many.