Hey Fractelle, it is a weird thing these relationships. We live and learn but the time it takes and what we need to suffer to do this learning is damn annoying. I wish there was an easier way to become who we are later.

Own space – magic. I had it once, for a few days before I left Christchurch to move here; I had sent the kids to grandparents in Queensland, Hubby was in Sydney, the dog was at the kennels waiting for his flight and there was me in a Motel alone, I loved every little moment of it. But in the end my overactive imagination got the better of me and I kept thinking Aussie was going to get hit by a bomb and sink and my little family was here without me. Hubby came back to get me and then we were alone for a couple days for the first time with no kids – Magic!

See if you felt controlled or were controlled soon as married then yeah he was a freak. I felt all kinda gushy and soon after the ex (didn’t marry him) signed the kids up for name changes so we could all be the same last name. Somehow that made a big difference to all of us. He asked soon after if my husband could adopt them – now there is a man trying to get out of Child Support. Bless the fool. My kids asked if they could all my husband dad but that was a step too far, the fool was their dad for better or for worse.[smile]

Fractelle, you were not treated right and I feel bad for the you back then. I am very pleased to have come across you online now, you’re honest and clear but most of all interesting.

Morning Whistler, your mum is 93 – she must have some good stories. What is Heidleberg school? I’m guessing you grew up just surrounded with people that know things about everything. I never knew how much I didn’t know until recently.

I get sidetracked too!

G'Day All,
Marriage, Weddings, Unions, Matrimony, How ever said is a major commitment & has burdens that are greater than a single person can bear as the pronouncment is the joining or coming together of two as one.
It then stands to reason for a marriage to succeed requires both parties working as one, & it will not succeed if only one tries as the burden will overwhelm them.
An interesting point as to "Older" marriages & why the "Love,Honour & Obey" was that the man was responsible for the crimes of not only himself but also his wife & all children of that marriage until the children came of age.
That is a point that wasn't & isn't mentioned very much when the talk gets to why a man had the final say over family matters but the day to day running of the home was the realm of the woman.
As society is the destruction of the individual then so are governments the destruction of marriage.
Thanks for your time Dave

When I say to my love, "Do you want to send to you my credit and use when you need it" Ii means that I care for my partner and I fully trust you. WE CAN NOT SPEAK FOR LOVE when we do not trust and care for our partner.
When I tell to my partner "I prefer your children, to come with us than to go with your relatives or ok BUT TELL THEM OUR DOORS AND OUR HUGES ALWAYS WILL BE OPEN FOR THEM" This is love
When I say to my partner " I do not expect from you any cents for the next 4-5 years. I want to support you to stand on your feet, to support you to become intependent financialy from me, I want from you to stay with me because you love me, NOT BECAUSE YOU DEPEND FINANCIALKY FROM ME, GO BACK TO UNIVERSITY!"This is love.
WE CAN NOT SPEAK FOR LOVE when we do not care very much if we live together or not when we are not close to our partner when he/she needs us, when our partner suffer or is at risk. Personaly I prefer when I go to sleep to give her a soft kiss, or to make her a tea, or to measure her happines from her smile or the shine of her eyes.
WE CAN NOT SPEAK FOR LOVE when our goals, our dreams, our hopes our characters, our values, our interests are very different, OK WE CAN SPEAK FOR A CONTRACT BUT THIS IS NOT LOVE! When I ignore, underestimate or hate her dreams, her hopes, her goals how I can love and support her? IT IS NECCESSARY A MINIMUM OF COMMON VALUES AND DIRECTIONS AND INDERESTS.
WE CAN NOT SPEAK FOR LOVE when we are interested mainly for our personal goals and underestimate her goals. LOVE MEANS GIVEN, CARING, SUFFERING, COMMON DREAMS AND HOPES, COMMON FUTURE.

Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

some weekends i've spotted seven wedding parties
at the Opera House and Sydney CBD.
owning women is a costly business
especially with men's religions.

i'll be eligible for marriage when Australia
is an equal rights republic.

The Pied Piper, my great grandfather
painted with the Heidelberg School
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidelberg_School

his father applied for the position of artist on the
Burke and Wills expedition only to witness the departure.

Whistler

Speaking of the Heidelberg Movement, while studying Landscape Architecture, one of the projects I signed on for during 3rd year was conducted by Frederick McCubbin's grandson - I can't remember his first name. He is an architect, but I could never forget his skill at sketching - what would take me a half hour, he could do in seconds. But I imagine given the family he was from, drawing would've been a part of everyday life. Not the case for me. I have to admit to being both in awe of him and a little jealous. However, I am not the only one who can draw in my family, my Aunt and a cousin were pretty good too.

BTW My ex-husband most definitely saw marriage as a way of 'owning' someone.

Antonius

I agree with your perceptions on what a relationship is about and vows have little do to with it.

Piper

We have paid our dues for our experience and knowledge, I think. Your man better continue to treat you with the love and respect you deserve.

Cheers

Whistler I must say I don’t understand these big weddings. Any big expensive unnecessary event annoys me; I’m one of those people who always has it running around in my mind just what could have been done to help someone if they had chosen to give instead of indulge. But these thoughts are usually directed at the female who I suspect wanted the indulgence.

Is Scotland a republic now?

I was expecting the Heidelberg school to be anything but Australian. Your elders painted in a similar way to the painting in the link?

Does your mum still paint? I went and looked up the Burke and Wills thing and your great great granddad was lucky by the looks of it.

What did you think of what Dave (dwg) said:

“ An interesting point as to "Older" marriages & why the "Love,Honour & Obey" was that the man was responsible for the crimes of not only himself but also his wife & all children of that marriage until the children came of age.”

I never thought of it like that before. Some kind of fairness in the inequality previously? I should add I don’t feel it, I feel very equal in my marriage/home etc.

Hiya Fractelle my man is a keeper. And I bet me and you both wish we’d met our men a couple of decades earlier.