Thanks Celivia for your last post. I know I have become confused at the line between church and state.

I agree with Yabby, yourself and Alchemist that there needs to be a clear distinction between church and state.

That is why I am upset at the current fed government which is clearly heavily influenced by a particular religion.

Therefore, we should not expect the church to become politically involved with any issue; be it abortion, animal welfare, family law or IR reform - just to name a few.

Perhaps we should look at the bigger picture; the environment is what feeds and sustains us all. The church doesn't have to be considered 'political' by preaching to its flock to behave humanely and to live sustainably in this world. Perhaps that is the message we need to get out.

There is another general discussion thread regarding the infiltration of religion into politics - perhaps that is the better place for discussion of the comments I have made previously.

Yes, on reflection the church has no place in animal activism anymore than it does in family planning.

'We are all in this together.'

;-)

Celivia, Scout nicely said. It's better if the churches use their influence within their congregations rather than trying to be powers outside.

For the record that's part of what I was trying to say in the post that seemed to upset Wendy when I said

"I suspect that he see's the prime role of the church is to join together to worship their god and to provide teaching about their faith. From there it would be up to each individual believer to live out that faith based on their understanding of it. For some that will mean involvement in differing causes (Graham and his work here) and for others it will mean differeing things. Safer for the rest of us than those who try to use the church to push their own agenda's."

R0bert

everybody

Would you agree the Church and Church Leaders have involved themselves in everything and anything politically.

As there is clear evidence it would not be reasonsibly then to comment on their lack of interest in the Animal Welfare.?

60 minutes live exports reports been a top political issue.

If you read the lords words they are to preach and lead the way in regards to such things as cruelty.

So "without politics" its very much their calling on their part.
.
It even goes on to Say About The Good Shepard who would lay down his life for his flock.

Any decent person would have some interest in stoping cruelty to animals. I feel it is more the Churches job.

If as as yabby pointed out "Well Wendy Then they should have a say about abortion as well "I guess Yabbys also correct.

As they do have a lot to say about abortion then it is only fair they contribute to animal Welfare.

Clearly this is not going to change to votes. So I guess we have nothing to fear but much to gain by the change.

I think Yabby has raised a good point indeed and as I said To Cilivia its certainly not going to work against animal welfare but much more likely in the favour of Animal Welfare.

I make no bones and never have done that I feel personally its the business of a Dr and his client what she does the the other.

However to put it up like that on a see through screen its crystal clear to me.

Yabby in this case and yourself too Robert are correct asw I raised it again to Cilivia.

Both issues should be given the same time by the Church

So yup we allow the Churches to get in on the abortion issue.

Actually that would be great because then the Churches would probably involve their members much more in regards to all issues and not just abortion.

The Church Does Have A roll to play in politics so lets not keep them behind the Vaile.

Wendy, I agree that many churches have involved themselves in politics. It is also fair to ask of those which do so why their silence on this issue.

My preference is for them to butt out in an official capacity, it creates in my view a conflict of interest when we have government ministers who may consider themselves to be under a higher authority than their oaths to this country. That will happen to some extent for any person. There are things I would not do regardless of what call my country placed on me. I hope that the situation is eased when the church limits it's public pronouncements on secular issues.

There are other reasons why I'd prefer the curches officially to not involve themselves in politics, one of which is that on many of the issues they have involved themselves in they don't speak for all of their congregations. From my former experience church membership includes people with a wide range of views.

Rather I'd prefer them to butt out and leave it to individual christains to work as they consider appropriate.

R0bert

RObert, it somehow didn't 'click' with me what you had said in your earlier post- reading over it again it is clear.
You meant all along what I said in my previous post.

Wendy, yes this was clearly my reasoning too, that it is unfair of the church to involve themselves politically with the other issues and neglect animal welfare.

But really, if I don't like the church's involvement in some issues I want to be consistent in saying they should stay out of politics ALTOGETHER. They can do enough (if they cared) good work by preaching and charity for the animals.
Churches still should be criticised for their lack of interest about animal issues.

The other point RObert makes is also valid- they don't speak for all of their congregations. This will cause internal disagreements as well.

I say let's ask churches to think of our Australian animals by preaching, not by entering politics- I'm with Scout that they should preach to their flock to behave humanely.

Even if they don't care for the environment (coz the world will end anyway) wouldn't it be good for the human soul not to be a destructive, abusing, cruel human being? Caring for others including animals might be the thing that will save the soul!

Agreement's bursting out all-over. I wasn't saying much more than this. And I don't have a problem if housewives get involved, even if they're not Christian (or if they are as well)! :-) But I don't want to provoke Yabby either.