Thanks for that article, TarynW.

Yabby, I don't really understand why you keep insisting that this is old stuff. It clearly is recent.

What about all the numbers of deaths during live exports. We can't ignore those numbers.

You can see that even with improved standards, animals suffer terribly. The reality of the live export trade is a mess, cruel and disgraceful. It should stop ASAP.

Recent, Yabby!
"...more than 50,000 Australian sheep, loaded in early August, YESTERDAY remained in search of a third country to take them for money, or free."

What is going to happen to all these poor sheep now?

Sorry, I looked at the wrong date from something else, it was not 2006- apologies.
Still, live exports remain cruel- something like this can potentially happen any time there is an export.

Celivia, I explained the deaths story, explain to me where my
reasoning is wrong. Have you ever run a flock of sheep over time?
There will be deaths from various causes amongst those sheep.
Pulpy Kidney, anemia from worms, pneumonia, etc. etc.

Run sheep into the yards or into a shed. As they have far more
energy then brains, the odd one will get squashed and other sheep
just don't care etc.

Shy feeders are a problem in feedlots and boats, thats another long
story, do you want to get into sheep psychology? :)

What pisses me off is in a place like WA, thousands of wild dogs
are on the loose, ripping sheep to shreds, goats too, the Govt
hardly is bothered, yet all that cruelty is happening right here in
our country. Have you ever seen what happens when wild dogs rip
sheep to shreds? Yet in comparison we have sheep in a feedlot,
fed, watered, lots of other provisions for humane treatment, then
we get lectures from you guys about suffering animals. I can't
blame you, I think you just don't have the foggiest about what
is happening in our own country.

Yabby, I am thinking a little differently about it than you are.
I just think that neither, animals dieing in paddocks nor being exported, is acceptable and there is much work to be done in both cases.

I assume that you are right that many sheep are killed or die in paddocks.
But the way I see it; the fact that sheep are killed in paddocks does not justify exporting them.

I don’t see that these two problems should have to be connected.
I see both issues as separate problems.

If there are many animals dieing in paddocks, we need to think what we can do about this to reduce the amount of deaths.
Is better protection of animals in paddocks possible?
E.g. better protection from dogs (better fencing). High fines for people who ‘let the dogs out’ or do not dissex dogs etc.
Or/and a ban on breeding animals in draught areas so they don’t die of hunger and thirst.
WHat can the government do to help? Or rather, what can people do to 'make' the government act?

‘Something’ should be done to help protect animals in paddocks.
If animals are dieing and suffering during and/or after live exports, we need to do something about that as well.
Banning live exports and find alternative solutions (like slaughter in Australia and export the chilled meat like Wendy suggested).

Like TarynW, I can see that this can be good for Australia and better for the animals.

Celivia, I think you miss the points I am trying to make. I am trying
to see the world, not in a Bambi or Skippy worldview, but of the cold
hard reality of what is really out there, outside of Hollywood influenced suburbia.

Where there are millions of sheep there will be deaths from various
causes. Remember 250'000 Aussies a year die too, from various causes.
Given a sheeps life of 5-6 years, compared to our 70-80, when you
send 4 million sheep anywhere, you will get deaths, much like with
people. Yup we don't spend the money on sheep for emergency medical
care, that we do on people, but that is the value that our society
puts on a human life versus a sheep's life.

Govts could do lots to reduce suffering, like spend resources on
removing wild dogs from the outback. They don't bother, as the votes are in the cities, not the bush. WA is particularly bad,
the Govt doesent give a hoot about the outback, focussing on railways and sports stadiums in Perth, as the priority.

WA has the most backward meat industry in Australia, the Govt does
not seem to care. Saleyards are falling apart, some people are getting hurt. Again its about votes, the city does not care.

Drought happens anywhere where there is less rainfall then normal,
so has no defined areas.

Nobody in the cities has come up with a plan, where farmers don't
get shafted and land up with the rough end of the pineapple, so to speak. Wendy's ideas are dreamer stuff and have no substance in reality, for a whole lot of reasons, firstly she does not understand
economics.

The live trade bypasses all the obstacles that city people impose
on us, sending us broke in the process. City people eat battery eggs,
lotfed cattle, factory pigs, etc. etc. Yet when farmers put sheep,
which have spent most of their lives outdoors, on a boat for a couple
of weeks, you claim its a major drama. Is that not hypocritical
of city people?

Yabby

Cilivia is correct. Stop trying to play mind games with her and the readers.

Dr Hugh Wirth has long said and the RSPCA has a standing position that they are totally one hundred percent Against live exports.

That has not Changed. In fact if anything as you know the RSPCA have after twenty years made the biggest stand against this industry in the history of their organisation.

Cilivia there was another ship just recently but this time im WA.

I can assure every reader that I personally attended a meeting only a few months ago along with Wendy when the Federal Agriculture Ministers advisers sat at a table in front of two lawyers as well and to discussed this at length.

However Yabby I will personally see to it that RSPCA Dr Hugh does a media Release again this week.

Its interesting to note you live exporters are now mis quoting the RSPCA long stand towards live exports.

very interesting.

We certainly also will be doing a media R in regards to your claims


As a matter of fact Cilvia there has never been such a stand from the RSPCA against anything I can recall and I am a life member.

Last year the RSPCA got a slap over the rist for going public with large news paper adds and radio adds just before an election.

Yabby dont you tell people otherwise.

Its was and still is "the "number one issue with RSPCA.
If the Government choose not to listen to the RSPCA then its clear they have no regard for animals.

This is from last year 2005 every body.

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/content/2005/s1459210.htm

Even If" the ships were not barbaric the fact is we have no control over the laws of treatment in other countries.
We all know how they are treated. the whole world knows especially after five Docs on this from 60 miniutes.

Dr Hugh just two months ago addressed a press conference and dedicated it to the church issue and clearly he said until the Church except that we all have a part to play this will contiune.