Whoops...yes CJ you are right it was a bit of a mixing of metaphors to say the least! Ha ha just shows need to engage brain while typing very fast.

I agree that it is individuals that are intolerant. But that is the point how do we reduce intolerance? You cannot eradicate it entirely just as one can't eradicate vanity, prejudice, pride or greed. Governments can only legislate against discrimination but this only serves a purpose when an issue is taken to Court.

It does not help women wearing the hajib being abused walking down the street nor a woman who might be more scantily clad being abused walking down the street - the other side of the coin in the same scenario. Two very different sets of prejudice.

I don't know the answer. Screening at the point of emigration/immigration is futile. What do you ask a prospective immigrant? Will you agree to abide by the laws of Australia and respect the rights of those who are different without fear or favour? Hardly going to get a No answer to that one.

These things are not easily controlled merely through legislation or rules but through generational change, education and evolving tolerance. Sometimes it may even take criminal prosecution for hate crimes.

The only thing I do know from experience is if you disenfranchise those who come here you only increase the tension and highlight the differences.

It has to be recognised that there is prejudice and discrimination on both sides of this debate - it is like the alcoholic admitting he has a problem. You cannot have an honest debate about immigration if the problems as well as the advantages are not discussed but hidden in the closet in the hope that noone will notice.

I for one would not be here now if Australia had not opened it's doors to immigrants. My father worked hard to improve his English which was very poor when he arrived and now most would not know except for a slight accent.

Fractelle,

“As for screening immigrants for 'quality' how does one do that?”

I don’t think we can effectively manage it. So if we can’t do it on an individual basis, then perhaps we should do it on a nationality/religion/ethnicity basis or a basis that people from either side of current conflicts (and old simmering discontents) be rejected.

That’d be a prickly undertaking. And it would be unfair to many good people who would fall into those broad categories.

At the risk of repeating myself too much, the answer as it concerns new arrivals is simple – quickly wind our immigration program down to net zero. Then we wouldn’t have to worry about the aforementioned dilemmas, or at least to a very much lesser extent.

“I am for a sustainable population - but this includes the world not just Australia.”

Most definitely. But we’ve got to get our own house into order. We don’t have to do this before we have a major part to play in global sustainability, but we surely have to get ourselves onto the right track as a fundamental part of any contribution to a global effort.

“We need to work towards peace and assist the poorest countries, this would reduce a lot of the hatred which feeds into the plans of extremists.”

Yes but we’ve got to make sure that our own society will remain healthy or else we won’t be able too contribute much at all. The best contribution we can make would be to greatly boost our international aid, directed at the causes of refugee-generation. We could double our refugee intake as part of this global effort.

“Australia is not an Island Fortress”

And we don’t want it to become one. We can have a healthy immigration / emigration program and input into international refugee / quality of life / sustainability issues, and we can get ourselves onto the right path towards environmental and resource sustainability and the maintenance of a healthy society. But we’ve got to get ourselves off of Rudd’s insane maximised population growth path soon if we are to do this.

Jewely,
Can you offer any explaination as to why the Lebanese muslims are so different here to what you encountered in the Middle East.

From what you say, you went out of your way to conform with the standards of the country you were in. You say you had no problems there because of this. Is it not therefore reasonable that we should expect those coming here to respect to our standards and laws or we do not allow them to come.

Both yourself and Fractelle question as to how the screening would be done. The screening would not be on an individual basis but decission made on a cultural or group basis and this made known to the applicant when visa assesment is made. If a person was of a group that was on the 'list' a visa would not be approved.

Ludwig says this would be unfair to some, but we constantly live with laws and rules that are unfair to some. The points system for taking away drivers licences is an example. Inconvienence for a city person but really unfair to a rural person that has no public transport available. We live with that, and if means a more tolerant and cohesive community then I do not mind being a bit hard on prospective immigrants.

In relation to the Tamils that were the essence of the police media release, I do not have to know how they differ from other Sri Lankans. It could be cultural, religion, political,hair or eyes or skin colour. My only concern is with their actions, nothing more. If there are any similar occurances, I certainly would advocate placing Tamils on the 'list' for visa refusal.

“Can you offer any explanation as to why the Lebanese Muslims are so different here to what you encountered in the Middle East?”

Banjo honey, to tell the truth that day at the American compound the reason I refused to remove my abya (black robe) was because that morning I woke up a bit rushed and only had underwear on underneath.

But the rest of the time, I understood a certain respect for the culture, the history, right or wrong. I walked on blood stained paving stones to my favorite market because someone was beheaded there days before. Right or wrong, give a toss.

You ready for this? I dread saying it but well… I am unlearned but I am honest…

Australia does not have a respectable culture in place, no rules in place. Nothing is strict, nothing to respect. Please don’t shoot me but Oi Oi Oi – you nicked that from the English, they always say Oi. What were you thinking?

You have nothing to respect. Cruise back in to the NRL thread, no shock no horror, no firm ground on which to stand so let’s question the chick. Aussies take no stand beyond the shrimp on the barbq and the beer. There is no culture here. What would another culture respect here? I am Kiwi, no culture comes closer and we find nothing to respect or follow here.

"Both yourself and Fractelle question as to how the screening would be done. The screening would not be on an individual basis but decission made on a cultural or group basis and this made known to the applicant when visa assesment is made. If a person was of a group that was on the 'list' a visa would not be approved."

I did not... never mentioned "screening" in my life. I like the whole “no boarders” concept. People must migrate to survive. How dare you stop people moving at will on this planet. Oh well you didn’t but this is my thought.

The thread here is threadbare but it does point up a problem.
Most people are fed up with the intolerance that the moslem community
demonstrates. I presume not all moslems have that intolerance but their
leaders demonstrate it and the majority just stand by in mute silence.

To make matters worse Melbourne and Sydney are full and further
immigrants are not welcome. We cannot allow our cities to become
larger as they will be unmanageable in a serious energy decline to say
nothing about water.
I would be happy to see a repatriation scheme implemented.

I think we should take note of Sri Lanker,
The Tamils migrated from Tamil Nardu in India and when their numbers
became large enough they wanted to saw off a third of the country
for themselves, and were then surprised when the Celonese objected !

Ludwig

We can't just suddenly turn our backs on the world while "cleaning up our own back yard".

Basically, we can walk and chew gum at the same time, as with introducing sustainable industries we remain reliant on polluting unsustainable ones, so we can look at our immigration policies. For example, we can aim for "replacement intake" as someone suggested previously (sorry can't remember who).

As for the current Breeding Program AKA the Baby Bonus, well that has been in force for ten years (approximately) - its another piece of middle class welfare introduced by the previous regime, that has stuck around. A bit of John Lennon "Imagine if the BB had been put into education instead of babies". Sigh. Or even assisting children already born but who face terrible issues such as domestic violence, sexual abuse etc. Those horrors happen here in this Australia, the one we are trying to protect from all the "bad people". As for the way other cultures treat women, well a couple of threads here on OLO suggest that women are still not quite equal right here.

Banjo, could you please provide a list of those countries from which you would NOT approve immigration and quantifiable reasons why.

Finally, Jewely you are indeed a scholar from your travels, what we call Australian culture is simply a melting pot of many other cultures beginning with Aboriginal; a culture BTW, that becomes more viable as it is vibrant with each new immigration intake. I don't want a return to the blandsville of the 50's.