Banjo,
Your instrument is a bit off key.
Who said there aren't problems? I didn't ....read the last sentence again it clearly acknowledged problems in the call for solutions.
All you are doing it finding someone else to blame so you don't have to do anything different.
Ludwig,
We agree there are too many people in Australia and the world. But ZPG won't work for all the reasons stated in previous conversations. How/Who is going to give up their 'rights' to children, families.

As for your idea that nill net immigration is going to aid community harmony is unsustainable history shows that humanity will simply divide on other grounds. Harmony won't just happen every one will have to work for it.
You simply push the idea here to further you argument for world ZPG but you still don't offer any plausible solution.

Runner,
Come on son get real, I often cite I am disgusted with violence regardless of origins. I just don't subscribe to the perspective that
that a small number of yobs who happen to be a particular race or variant form of a religion therefore all that race or religion are rotten too. I make the point that Some Aussies are yobs too but that doesn't mean all Aussies are yobs.
BTW Again! I am not responsible for your lack of knowledge read wider. I am neither a greenie nor from the left any more than you are from the Branch Davinians.


End I'm sick of this game baiting game .

“Ludwig are you the old, known greeny Ludvig or you are a new one close to Banjo and other nationalists?”

It’s the same old Ludwig here, Antonios – the Ludwig that has always been deeply concerned about ‘greeny’ things AND social cohesion. It wouldn’t make much sense to be concerned about sustainability and not about the maintenance of a strong social fabric and good quality of life, ay!

“I am also of the opinion that immigration should be reduced to net Zero, but that is a different debate.”

Banjo, I don’t think it is a different debate. As I said in my last post, we would hardly have to worry about stopping the importation of those groups of people that cannot or will not respect our society, if we reduce immigration numbers way down.

Those people who are concerned about Australia running into the same sorts of racial/ethnic/religious strife that we have seen in a number of European countries should stop turning a blind eye to the enormous importance of greatly reducing our total immigration intake.

“We agree there are too many people in Australia and the world. But ZPG won't work…”

Examinator, zero population growth will be achieved one way or the other. That is for certain. Whether it happens in Australia by way of good management or by way of catastrophe remains to be seen. Australia still has about the best chance of any country in the world of making it happen via good management, but of course there is no indication at the moment that this will happen.

Surely THE most important parameter of all is the maintenance of a decent quality of life. The size of our immigration intake, and to some extent it composition, is of the utmost concern in this regard.

Do you disagree with this? What is your counter-argument for striving to achieve sustainability and maintain good social cohesion?

“Jewely
You confuse me! one time conservative and the other prograsive, one time good and the other not. I agree with you.”

You are a honey Antonios you have stood out as a person who writes honestly without trying to harm another to win a debate. I am sorry to confuse and I know I over explain a lot of stuff.

“I suggest a close eye be kept and any similar instances should result in no more Tamils being allow entry.”

Banjo; The link you posted was bleating on about different crowds and violence, no races mentioned. I may have missed a link? Hubby had one at work (tiger), nice guy. The End. You don’t know how they differ but you sit there and judge they should not be here?

“Interesting that you note that the Lebanese in the Middle East have a good reputation. Not so here, Lebanese Muslims here have a dreadfull reputation in anti-social behaviour. We do not seem to have the same problems with non Muslim Lebanese or with muslims of other nationalities to same extent.”

Their culture was vastly different from mine but the Arab people were lovely and lovely to me and my children. One day I went to the American compound, and after establishing I did not have a bomb on me they requested I not wear the albiya (black robe) in the compound. I refused to take it off and got the filthiest looks the whole time I was there. Some of them looked a bit scared, the women wouldn’t talk to me.

But tell ya what, out in public and off my own compound I always covered everything (except my face) the American women didn’t they showed cleavage and everything – could spot the tarts from a mile away.

I am for a sustainable population - but this includes the world not just Australia.

We need to work towards peace and assist the poorest countries, this would reduce a lot of the hatred which feeds into the plans of extremists.

As for screening immigrants for 'quality' how does one do that? The most perfect family ever to exist may give birth to a ranting psychopath, besides if we start 'screening for quality' which is sounding more and more like implementing eugenics - shouldn't we start with ourselves? Is every single Australian born person the paragon of virtue?

I think not.

In helping other nations we would actually be helping ourselves - fewer people would need to flee oppressive regimes. Better educated populations would reduce themselves - fact is the better educated, the less children women have.

http://www.unicef.org/mdg/poverty.html

Australia is not an Island Fortress (as some apparently think) - we are part of this world and all the discriminatory policies (well meaning or not) will not stop violence and disagreement.

I'm white, 6th generation Australian and I would rather a plethora of Waleed Aly's than a single George Pell. (http://www.civicsandcitizenship.edu.au/cce/default.asp?id=15569)

We cannot exempt Australia from the rest of the world, we tried that with the White Australia Policy and by ignoring the original inhabitants of this country - didn't work then and certainly won't work now.

At last some one who understands my points thank you Fractelle.

Ludwig and I agree about the inevitability of ZPG IF we continue to seek quick/superficial and/or a magic bullet answers. As in Banjo's argument seeking to blame for our indifference/selfishness. All gain no effort on our part as individuals

Social Cohesion comes from WITHIN us not eternally (immigrants) . Even without immigration human nature would find a difference to fight over. History proves this point.

The argument like 'look at Europe' is superficial to the point pointless . One needs to drill down to human nature to find an applicable commonality. i.e. the anti migrant comes about because of fear of change, loss of MY perceived privileges etc.

50/60 years ago Argentina, was seen as an upcoming 1st world nation, The average Standard of living in Egypt was considerably better than today. The first got tangled up in power abuses etc. Egypt, political incompetence power politics (elite) and manipulation by external nations. Given this and a burgeoning population, a plummeting of standard of living a western propped up dictatorship, unemployment, lack of opportunity....The malcontents created a social philosophy based on extreme interpretations of the Islam (Muslim Brotherhood) a devotee to this extremism is Osama.
MY POINT IS IF WE IGNORE OTHER'S PROBLEMS SOONER OR LATER THEY WILL COME BACK AND BITE US.

Common sense tells us as Fractelle says we're not a fortress, a planet not effected by others. If in the future the starving or displaced Billions decide to partake of our 'Nirvana' then there will be precious little we can do to stop them.

Surely then enlightened self interest tells us to give the teeming masses a reason to stay home (usually their preferred choice anyway only our arrogance/paranoia makes us think otherwise).

If that means we sacrifice a little (of our excesses)to do so the end result is far better for all. i.e. control our excesses including arguing thinking in extremes.

The relevant question is then HOW? Collectively we may find the answers.

Clearly, we need to bring back the "White Australia Policy", of which Banjo's namesake was such a fervent supporter.