*How can you be so sure? *

RobP, if people arn't being locked up for rape, then that is the
first thing that needs fixing! Having laws is not much good,
if they are not enforced. Fact is we know of plenty of people
being locked up for rape, even the 30 second rapist. We also
know that some were locked up when they were not guilty, so
a fair system needs to be in place.

The law of the jungle is more about genetics. Think about it,
the Catholic Church has spent 2000 years or so, trying to get
its priests to only have pure thoughts. They have failed
miserably for 2000 years, for people are clearly sexual creatures
by nature.

*To answer your question, I do think that the group sex culture has to go.*

That does not really answer my question. Yes it will go underground
in football, the sponsors will see to that. Just today the Sharks
lost another 700k in sponsorship from LG.

There is however groupsex going on at all sorts of levels of society,
from wild swinger clubs to cricket teams etc. If you are against
groupsex for NRL players, then do you think that all groupsex for
all people should officially be banned by law? I'm just trying to
get to the point where we clearly understand each other and our
positions on this, so that there are no confusions.

Ginx
When the girl asked to have sex with the team she said ok to all men except from one man , The UGLY one!
I do not care for the girl or the rest from the team because they was adults and they agreed for the sex and they took what they wanted
I ONLY think for the "UGLY" man, who was rejected!
Ginx can you imagine him?
For him was realy a BIG problem!
If he takes to the court the rest of the team I will understand and support him!
He was the real victim!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

"There is however groupsex going on at all sorts of levels of society,
from wild swinger clubs to cricket teams etc. If you are against
groupsex for NRL players, then do you think that all groupsex for
all people should officially be banned by law?"

Yabby, I think the group sex thing needs to ultimately go from everywhere. But the realist in me says that there are limits to what any one approach can achieve. I'd say that the law is limited only to wherever a spotlight can be shone and where there is a social benefit in doing it. There are still some places where the spotlight can't be shone and there's always going to be some subjectivity in terms of where to draw the line between good and bad activity.

I know what you are getting at: that the law will be twisted around and used against those that have done nothing or little wrong. Point taken. What I'll say is that the situation needs to be scrutinised to see that the bad behaviour doesn't pop out and threaten healthy activities in society. Once it does, the authorities should use carte blanche to crack down on the worst of it IMO.

Belly, you may roll around on the floor laughing. Don't hurt yourself now.

*Yabby, I think the group sex thing needs to ultimately go from everywhere*

RobP, fair enough, if I understand you correctly, in your ideal
world you would ban group sex. What else would you ban?
Gay sex? Lesbian sex? Sex between unmarried people?

I don't have a problem agreeing to disagree with people.

What I am trying to establish is what your values are and
why. I haven't read enough of your posts, so I really
don't know.

Antonios and varius others; have any of you acually seen the show or read anything about it before condemning this woman??

Please note - TWO players and APOLOGY -

Lateline transcript:

<"ADRIAN RASCHELLA: Last night, ‘Four Corners’ detailed two sexual encounters, one of them involving Matthew Johns. In 2002, a woman known only as 'Clare' went to a Christchurch hotel with two Cronulla Sharks players. She said it turned into a degrading group sex session with six players and another six watching on.

'CLARE': If I had a gun I'd shoot them right now. I hate them. They disgust me. I want them dead. I hate them so much.

ADRIAN RASCHELLA: Matthew Johns and Brett Firman were first to have sex with the then 19-year-old. Four Corners says Firman told the program she was, "Up for it 100 per cent." Johns said he apologised to her in the car park for the others coming into the room.">

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2008/s2568678.htm

This young player is the same age that Claire was at the time - 19; well actually he's 20. If we can feel sympathy for his youthful faux-pas (and I do) - that he's receiving COUNSELLING for, why can't the same kindness be extended to her?

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25474132-5001023,00.html

- and here are some further clarifications. Could people claiming that she would be all cashed up please take note:

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2009/s2575275.htm

Damned Taliban.

<"Two months ago, after we had begun researching a story on Rugby League, one of the members of the Cronulla Sharks tour to New Zealand told Four Corners about the events in Christchurch. Through our research we found Clare and asked her to take part in a program looking at off-field incidents in the NRL, attitudes to women in the culture of the game and the possibility for change. On that basis and knowing there were other women also speaking out, she agreed.">

One of the Sharks blabbed about it first to 4C, not Claire. She declined media offers to talk about it then, has not been paid for the interview and has asked that the media leave her alone now.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2009/s2575275.htm

As to "group sex" <- implies an equal balance of power; is that the same as a gang bang?

As to whether it's something we should say is AOK; if some of the men here STILL claim that she was freely consenting to 'group sex', then the fact that she has been diagnosed as PTSD and been suicidal since tells us that the consequences are negative. Therefore the activity is socially undesirable.