"RobP, if your previous post was interpreted differently to how
you meant it, I was not the only one to do so."

Translated: as you're part of the majority here, you must be OK (which is exactly what I'm fighting against on this occasion). The point of my posts was not to stand up for those who voluntarily agree to engage in group behaviour, it's for those who get caught up in it and who do not want or deserve it - by the 50% rule, that's half the population. In today's news is described an outing of the culture of secrecy in Ireland where young people were humiliated, beaten and sometimes worse in the "care" of authorities in the past. If everyone was like you, this sort of stuff would never have been outed. Now I fully get your point that the doyennes of the feminist clergy are using the situation to push their own barrows. However opportunistic they are, that still doesn't change the fact that some unsavoury incidents occur and there's no way of changing that until the bad behaviour is exposed.

Foxy, you echo my thoughts when you said: "So, there's always two ways (at least) of looking at things - as this thread is proving." The problem is that there are potentially a multitude of reasonable ways of looking at things. The problem is not that people are not serious about their views, but that one man's meat is another's poison.

Now, what we're really missing here is what the silent majority think about all of this. I can't help thinking that most Australians do not like the excessive behaviour, but are busy keeping their heads down. If enough of them spoke up and acted, the problem could be solved relatively quickly. There would be a reversal in peer group pressure that would similarly reverse some of the bad prevailing cultures. But I suppose if that happened, they would be accused of being stooges for the Church or something.

The moral of the story: You can never win when ya fight all by yourself.

“Now, what we're really missing here is what the silent majority think about all of this. I can't help thinking that most Australians do not like the excessive behaviour, but are busy keeping their heads down. If enough of them spoke up and acted, the problem could be solved relatively quickly. There would be a reversal in peer group pressure that would similarly reverse some of the bad prevailing cultures.”

This is simple RobP, it must begin (like all things) with children. More people, with brains and ethics intact, to foster children and take an interest in all children.

You teach them, they pass it on. But most people would be too busy or cannot stop earning what they earn to do this.

It isn’t a very exciting concept but if everyone started paying attention to the children, their rights, how they are doing, maybe a difference would be made by the grown ups taking this sudden interest in what all the little Aussie kids are learning, how they’re coping.

"Another point to be made is that Matthew Johns said he apologized to her in the car park for the other men coming and joining in. That means that she didn't know what was going to happen. It also means that he didn't help by telling the team - he was leader too wasn't he? - to bugger off. He just left her to fend for herself with crowd of hyped up young men. I would like to know how they knew to go into the room and participate." (Quote: Pynchme).

That is pivotal to this incident. Absolutely pivotal.

But it will be dismissed or distorted-more of the same.

Me? I've only just got started on this topic.

(And Tinkerbelly; take your own advice;-don't respond! Especially not with stuff about comerades (sic). A bit of a waffle..).

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Antonious, thanks for your comment. Yes on this matter, we largely
agree. On other subjects, we might agree to disagree.

I don't get emotionally involved to the point where I love or hate
OLO posters. Some, like Pericles, I respect for their sheer ability
to think rationally. OLO is worth reading, simply for the occasional
gem that appears, from all sorts of posters. Sometimes it lets me
examine things from another perspective, which is always a good
thing.

*Translated: as you're part of the majority here, you must be OK*

No RobP, translated: perhaps if you had made your point more
clearly, there would not be a misunderstanding by so many other
posters.

*it's for those who get caught up in it and who do not want or deserve it - by the 50% rule, that's half the population.*

Perhaps I am just not smart enough to understand your point, RobP.

Nobody forces anyone into groupsex. If they do, they will land up
in jail. But people should also use sound judgement in their lives.
If I was a young and cute teenager, who went to a bar where
footballers hang out, flashed my breasts at them and invited a
couple of them into the toilets, I should not be amazed if things
get out of hand. Nobody is forcing anyone to go to a pub and hang
out with footballers, so how does it affect those people in the
community?

Why don't you just come clean, or perhaps explain to a simple
minded fellow like me, if what you really would like is just
to have groupsex banned altogether, as it is seemingly
"dragging down the culture".

"*it's for those who get caught up in it and who do not want or deserve it - by the 50% rule, that's half the population.*"

Yabby,

Yes, I should have been clearer and said something like: "by the 50% rule, half the population is potentially susceptible to being dragged down or degraded by the antics of a few." In other words, it could easily happen to anyone in half the population.

"Nobody forces anyone into groupsex. If they do, they will land up in jail."

How can you be so sure? In order to get the perpetrators in jail, one needs to have the courage and platform to first stand up against it, support from the political, police and judicial authorities as well as overwhelming evidence. That's a pretty rare combination to get in practice.

You, after all, were the one who said that the Law of the Jungle operates out there. Does the Law of the Jungle ever stop to see how the victim is faring afterwards? Does it even recognise victimhood? Never. Given that, how can you say it never happens. Apart from the few involved in it, who'd ever know it was going on?

Blind Freddy can see that you've got your freight train and you're sticking with it no matter what.

To answer your question, I do think that the group sex culture has to go. But it won't be me that does it. It will be a few administrators, sponsors, journalists, commentators etc that have some input on the subject and it will happen in its own way and it's own time. So, yeah, it will happen, but just not in a way that anyone thinks it will.

2 posters make claim to speak on behalf of the silent majority, now that is stretching things is,is it not? We all feel our views are the right ones, but the wise umung us know we sometimes get it wrong.
The true unwise claim far too often that those who think differently to them are wrong.
But to put words in the mouth of the silent majority to back up your views?
ROFL!
again words will not restore this woman,s virginity, she lost that before this event, she bragged about her intentions, later about carrying them out.
Yet total blame, is layed at the door of a bloke who knocked her back for more sex.
Just maybe some of the silent majority are laying low in the hope their teenage sex never comes out, people have sex outside relationships and outside rules others make.