“bleeding heart tales tell of being forced ,can any woman tell me they would not fight or scream if it was unwanted? Would anyone so badly treated wait 5 days?”

I have been in MC clubs when this stuff goes down Belly, I have seen the stupid girls who think they will control what happens.

The control they think they have is in their bravado.

They don’t know what is about to happen, the men do, they’ve done it before.

They girl will tell you about it with a smile on her face a few days later. Maybe after awhile they can retell it without the shame but I never found one again.

The men will tell the story over beer right up until another stupid girl comes along.

But I do know what happens to the ones that fight, I think they figure it out too, they choose flight with nowhere to go.

*Surely the footballers would have a clue that some of the women who vie for their attentions MIGHT be unstable. In which case they shouldn't be taking advantage of that.*

Says Pynchme the intellectual. It seems to me Pynchme, that you
should know more about young, tesosterone loaded footballers :)

Alot of these guys are not exactly Rhodes scholars you know.
Rugby is no game for sensitive petals either. Alot of these
guys are 19-20, so as naive about the world as young girls.
Alot of those girls are fairly drunk, so are the blokes,
so I think your chances deep intellectual contemplation are
frankly peeing in the breeze and unrealistic.

RobP, Robert answered my point for me. If you think that
I should become intolerant of all those things that I don't
personally practise, or think leads to a more "noble culture",
the world would become a pretty sad place. We have seen
enough of that in history, with all the disasters that
followed.

So the one thing that I am intolerant of, is the intolerant.

Like I always say, I don't care if you swing by your testicles
from your chandelier, as long as both are yours and not mine :)

.

Pynchme
Is not it strange that a person with this kind of problems, with so big fear, one time had sex with two in the toiletes and next time with more persons?
If " dissociation tends to be not well recognised or understood (even by mental health professionals)" then how can you expect from the men to understand that she had a problem?
What will happen if every person first agree for sex and later claim that had dissociation problem which even the mental health professionals can not understand?
Do not you think that with these stories you are converting the sex to a DRACUMEN?
Do not you think that you are trying to convert a simple, clear, legal, group sex to a crime?
Do not you know that any one must agree for the sex before it happened and not days later?
If she feeled bad after the sex this is an other story, I understand it but she can not blame any one else EXCEPT FROM HER SELF.
We can not victimize innocent people because one part change mind or try to benefit from it with any way or because she had a problem which even specialists can not recognize.
We must be responsible and think for the consiquenses of our writings.
WE HAD A LEGAL GROUP SEX, WHERE ONE PERSON FOR UNKNOWN REASONS LATER CHANGED MIND ABOUT IT.
This happened every day, everywhere and we can not blame anyone for it!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Hi Antonios,

Thanks for obviously taking the time to consider what I posted.

I agree with you. Prior trauma doesn't make current sexual choices
illegal - where there is a choice, that is.

However, the woman in this situation was bing villified because she didn't put up a fight; as well as because she went to the poice days later. I was simply illuminating why those things occur and that they don't indicate any dishonest motive.

Another point to be made is that Matthew Johns said he apologized to her in the car park for the other men coming and joining in. That means that she didn't know what was going to happen. It also means that he didn't help by telling the team - he was leader too wasn't he? - to bugger off. He just left her to fend for herself with crowd of hyped up young men. I would like to know how they knew to go into the room and participate. Was the whole thing a set up? Was Mattew Johns actually procuring for his team?

Also, much is being made of claims that she bonked a couple of blokes the day before or something - so wht? Is anyone holding THEM acountable for being sluts the day before ? (no) Prior behaviour is of no significance; though a smart man would weigh up the odds of whether it's wise to engage in that sort of behaviour with someone who might be unstable.

Lastly, if women, like this one, are expected to be discerning in their sexual encounters, then why not men? The testosterone excuse just doesn't wash. There are plenty of circumtances in which men control their sexual impulses. Therefore, they can be held responsible for their choices.

Dear Antiseptic,

Just to set the record straight again, for you:

I do not purse my lips - ever. I've got some
very bad memories of a mathematics teacher
that had a habit of doing that - he was
an extremely narrow-minded, frustrated, lonely
old man - who took out his revenge on his young
female students. Sound familiar?

And I have never, ever told any of my children,
"Wait till your father gets home," when it came
to punishment. Simply because I think that is
psychologically a bad thing to do.

A child can
understand very well when you give him a slap in
anger. He knows you're mad at him and he understands
why. What a child cannot understand is when he disobeys
his mother at 10am and she tells him, as you suggest,
"Wait till your father gets home." Then when dad arrives
home he's expected to administer a spanking which will
"really teach the boy a lesson."

That's the kind of cold-blooded spanking a child can't
either understand or forgive.

I hope this information helps clarify some things for
you. If you'd like to learn more about
parenting - I'm sure your local library can help.

"If you think that I should become intolerant of all those things that I don't personally practise, or think leads to a more "noble culture", the world would become a pretty sad place."

Yabby,

When have I ever said what you should do? Somehow or other you've taken it as a personal attack. Either that or you're spoiling for a fight. It's my view that the gang-bang culture is not a good one - that's basically all I've said. You've got a bit of a tendency to verbal people which I'm starting to take a dislike to. It's a pre-emptive strike that I've seen before from some of the intelligensia and I don't think is warranted in this instance.

Now you answer the question - does an unwelcome sexual advance on a woman who has not given direct consent potentially result in a degradation of her? A yes or no will suffice.

I'll give you a hint - even if one of the group has lascivious intent and the others do not, it is still a bad act. What's the odds that a whole row of modern-day rugby players will be pure as the driven snow in terms of their intent? Two-thirds of three-fifths of sod all I'd suggest.