"You and others miss the point completely, RobP. It is just your
own narrow opinion about what is "bad culture". If it is seemingly
that bad, then make it illegal. I am simply less judgemental and
more tolerant then you are."

Yabby,

Whaddya mean "the" point? You mean your point, don't you?

Seeing as though you choose to see things relatively, I'll rephrase bad culture as "less good" culture. Is it right that people who live by a higher or nobler culture are subjected to a less good culture and potentially dragged down? Because this is, in reality, what can happen in a gang-bang situation. At the very least, people can be made to feel uncomfortable. Agreed or not? If so, how can a "dragging down" be good in any way, shape or form

Rob, it's not a "culture" that I like. It does seem to debase people. One of the difficulties is that I see the same problems with other area's where most have realised that the harm done by attacking outweighs any benefits.

Two which come to mind are aspects of the gay movement and some of the issues around abortion. Much of what I've seen of the Mardi-gras and gay nightclub scene leave me very uncomfortable. In my own case I'm talking about the public spectactle not the bit about individuals and loving relationships but others would take that discomfort/sense of wrongness much further and have reasons which to them seem very valid.

I'm not personally comfortable with the use of abortion except in extreme situations. It raises a number of issues which concern me. Those have been canvassed far to often by too many for me to want to raise them again here.

Having said that I can also say that on both those issues I've reached the conclusion that the consequences of trying to limit people's freedom to choose far outweigh's any "good" that might come from such limitations. I've concluded that the consequences of villifying those who make choices which don't meet my own preferences or taste outweigh any betterment of society which might come from an attempt at social engineering.

I've recognised that many others who stand up for the rights of those who make such choices don't necessarily personally like those choices nor would they make the same choices if in the same situation.

There was probably an element of "being used" in this from both sides. The footballers used someone who was silly enough to mistake their fame and their fit bodies for something meaningful for a short term sexual pleasure. The woman used them for her own purposes (bragging rights, a brush with fame). Neither is noble or admirable.

The tyrany of intefering between adults consentual choices far outweighs any benefits which we might think come from trying to enforce "better" standards.

R0bert

Bravo R0bert! You have right!
Some people are interested only for their self, only for what they think is good.
For me progresive means every move, every step which tranfers power to people, to individuals, and limited the power from beaurocracy on individuals, withouht of cause the state to abolish its duties, its obligations to individuals, to its citizens, to protect their basic rights.
In undeveloped, undemocratic countries individuals, especialy women and young persons have very little power, very weak voice, if anything at all.
In developed, civilized, democratic countries individuals, the persons, the women or young etc have a voice, have some power, have a hope for a better future.
As we transfer more power to individuals, to women, to youngs, to migrants, to woprkers to ... we create a fairer, a happier society. Happier society means more democratic society, more tolerand soc iety, more opened society, with more understanding, acceptance, and diversity.
Today women or young persons have some power to promote their interests, to claim their rights.
About the sex women or young persons have the right to decide if, when, with who, and how to make sex.
The age of sexual consent in Canada is 14. According to Supreme Court of Canada the Clubs that allow group sex and partner swapping" do not harm Canadian society and should not be considered criminal"
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/12/21/SCOC-swingers-051221.html
This is a victory for indiduals, a victory for men and women, a victory for young people.
No one can press anyone for sex but no one can block him/her if both parties agree for sex.
Unfortunatly there are some "progresives" who try to push our society backward, I think they are in the wrong side and if they continue their way, if they extent their way they will reach the... Victorian era or they will move parallel to the same direction with the Talibans!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaid

Ah Ginx, thanks for confirming every thing I said about you.
And special thanks for confirming my often used quote unions there is a difference.
Aware some think brain dead leftys calling people comerade are unionists, but not me, not my members.
Conservative? not in this thread look at the rubbish in display, Maximillion is now calling it rape.
bleeding heart tales tell of being forced ,can any woman tell me they would not fight or scream if it was unwanted?
Would anyone so badly treated wait 5 days?
A quick search has found pages of information on other sports, has this debate heated up because its NRL?
is there ANY chance come be honest ANY chance this woman was unstable before the event?
Could that account for her sex romp in a toilet with 2 local footballers?
Are any women wrong in matters of sex or only men?
Some are jumping to huge conclusions here no basis for their charges has been given in media reports I have seen.

<"...can any woman tell me they would not fight or scream if it was unwanted? Would anyone so badly treated wait 5 days?">

Yes I can tell you that research bears out the fact that many people 'freeze' when they're in a threatening or painful situation.
Research has noted a passive acceptance while in a dissociative state especially amongst victims (female and male) who were victims of sexual asault as children. The explanatory theory is that they were taught very early in life that resistance brings more suffering; that when confronted with overwhelming power that compliance gets the event over with as fast as possible and avoids enraging the aggressor. Going somewhere else in their heads (ie: dissociation) during an assault is a learned survival technique.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/erlyons/dissociation.htm

Taking 5 days to report is not unusual; most people don't report at all.

<"is there ANY chance come be honest ANY chance this woman was unstable before the event?
Could that account for her sex romp in a toilet with 2 local footballers?">

Yes it's possible she, or any woman who engages in promiscuous behaviour, is already unstable. It's well established that people who have been abused or raped sometimes feel so worthless and despised that they reenact the punishment to themselves over and over again with disinhibited behaviour.

Surely the footballers would have a clue that some of the women who vie for their attentions MIGHT be unstable. In which case they shouldn't be taking advantage of that. Certainly it seems they have met enough such women that they should be able to discern which is which. They could do so much good by kindly declining any opportunity to reenact abuse; by letting the peron know that they can be regarded as valuable for something other than their genitals.

In any case men who are desperate enough to take sex anywhere they can get it need to understand and take responsibiity for the consequences they may bring on themselves by engaging in reenactment with someone unstable.