An interesting thread – 80 posts in 3 days shows the level of interest in the issue.

“Why is it that the call is for men to act responsibly and ethically, but not women?”

Yabby, because the root cause of the problem in this situation is men acting badly. Women naturally react to what men see in them. If men see them as sex objects, some women will always oblige. So attacking the blokey culture is actually attacking the problem on both sides. I believe that once the ARL bad behaviour goes, women will naturally lift their own game. Get rid of the boys’ culture and the rest will take care of itself (until the next crisis) as they say.

-- -- -- -- -- --

My take on the apparent facts in the Matthew Johns matter:

The fact that Johns has come forward publicly says two things about him – he knows that what happened was wrong and it’s a lot better for him to come out on the front foot, face the music and stunt the incoming attack Captain Ramius style (as he turned the Red October into the path of the incoming torpedo….) It tells me that Johns probably wouldn’t have done what he did if the ARL peer group pressure, pack mentality and groupie response wasn’t as strong as it was, as it’s a lot easier to go along with the flow than stand against it. That was what he did wrong – not have the courage to stand up against the culture at the outset. His recent public outing has forced him to effectively cast adrift some of the other players in the sex affair and break up the player solidarity on the issue which is a good thing.

Was the 4 Corners attack motivated by femonazis? Absolutely. Is it going to have a positive effect on league culture? Most definitely. Have a few players so far been treated more harshly than the others involved? Yes – Johns being the prime example. But, can you make an omelette without cracking a few eggs? No, unfortunately.

Give it a break, If the Good Lord had not made sex fun, none of us would be here. In my experience it is just as much fun for women as men, and consequently not impossible to get. What I don’t like is the judgmental way it is treated. I would not know how a woman feels really having never been one, but I do know that if a bloke makes a good effort, next time is easy.

There are all sorts of reasons some girls have group sex. I have never indulged myself, but with lots of alcohol, and a sometimes insatiable appetite for sex, a girl can wear out one bloke, and want more than one man can deliver. Perhaps that is the origin of the word wanton. Young men and women have raging hormones. That is why they invented marriage, to allow the urges to be positively expended.

This should not be the subject of media damnation. It should not be in the media at all. Perhaps it is our craving for a God, any God, and Sporting Heroes may fit the bill. It is in my thinking a sick way to get cheap thrills, condemn someone. When the God has feet of clay, why should we be disappointed

Foxy,
I understand you "how can saying yes to one man be construed as
saying yes to five more?"
But we, you or me, can not decide what kind of sex other people like.
We can not order them how to do sex or what is the right sex.
I RECOGNISE, I RESPECT, AND I TRY TO PROTECT ADULT'S RIGHT TO DO THE SEX WHICH BOTH SIDES LIKE TO DO.
For me the sex is a private issue, SIMPLE AND CLEAR.
I disagree with any person who thinks we can put rules and orders and cameras in the bedrooms!
Let's leave some freedom for adults on their own private activities.
LET'S STAY FAR FROM PRIVATE ISSUES!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Dear Belly,

I wasn't going to respond to this discussion
any further - but as I respect you, and after
reading your reference to me, I feel you deserve
an explanation.

I'm sorry that we don't see eye-to-eye on this
issue and that you don't understand what you
describe as my "stubborn refusal" to see things
in their true light.

Phil Gould, the well known commentator and coach, speaking
on Tony Eastley's AM radio program said that he saw
this NRL incident as a stern warning to both the players
and young women to re-think their behaviour.

He hopes that the league's latest scandal will lead to
lasting change. As Gould points out, "... for so long,
there's been incidents, whether it was drugs, alcohol
or abuse of women that people have walked away from.
Let's hope the shock and the after-effects of this incident
will be the wake-up call that nobody walks away from.
That it sends a message to all concerned."

Gould says that, "...the night turned sour at the time
the door opened and other players walked in...
From that moment on, this event was headed for disaster,
and tears. From the time the other blokes walked into
the room (the extra party) they were in the wrong.
And even if they feel as though she gives consent
at that time, it's still going to end up wrong.
She's in no position, no age to make that decision.
They completely hijacked her."

This behaviour needs to be addressed. Not only
by all players, young girls, but young people
in general. They need to know that there are no
winners in these type of situations.

*Yabby, because the root cause of the problem in this situation is men acting badly. Women naturally react to what men see in them. If men see them as sex objects, some women will always oblige*

So what you are saying RobP, is that its ok for some women to
naturally react, but not ok for some blokes. Sorry, that is
a double standard. If those women did not throw themselves at
men, there would not be a problem either.

That has been my point all along, this double standard.

Now be honest here RobP, think back to your late teens, early
twenties. If a cute 18 year old offered to shag you, did you
knock em all back? Did your friends knock em all back? That is
just not realistic.

I think that the pressure from sponsors will cool things down,
for if there are no $ coming in, it affects everyone.

But in today's Sunday Times there was an article about the story,
where a Nigel Vagana, who seemingly works with the players points
out that this is not the only place where these things are happening
and that the this is "simply a window on to what's out there in
society". A very valid point.

I had a long think about this question today and I guess most parents
hope for the best for their kids. But if it was my daughter, I'd
rather she come home in tears because some guy shagged her and used
her, then she come home telling me that she is on Ice. That
stuff literally fries their brains, oh what a disaster for parents.

Some friends of mine have lost their kids through Ice and I see it
as a far worse problem for society

Hear, hear Foxy.

And Aussielady, asking a woman/girl whether she is enjoying the experience as a new benchmark. You are hopeful, she just might say no and out the door flies any notion of 'consent'. You get that 'yes', then go for it baby. What do you think, she said 'yes I'd like to enjoy myself with you (or youse) and get my rocks off? No, obviously, as many men on this site will argue, she said 'yes, you and any of your friends who might drop by, get your rocks off, use my body, don't worry your little head(s) about my orgasms'.

Don't you know that once a woman gives consent, that's it, regardless if things aren't quite what she was led to believe or thought she might experience? Heaven forbid that the male myth that being chafed raw by a group of men is the secret desire and bliss of women gets blown out of the sky.

We respect women in Australia, don't you know, we actually think it is right to consider the issue of consent, but there's no piking afterwards, because then you're a teasing man-hating bitch who deserves whatever is coming to you.

The really sad thing is, how many women buy into that too, but to do otherwise would mean acknowledging that there might have been times you give consent, but didn't mean consent for whatever then ensued and didn't have the courage to stop whatever was happening.

As Foxy said, Gould pointed out that the situation changed after the other guys walked in