Most of us go on the assumption
that sex should be consentual, safe, and enjoyable.

The trouble with this situation comes when
there's a cloud over consent.

As I tried to point out in my earlier posts -
how can saying yes to one man be construed as
saying yes to five more?

How would it be possible for a 19 year old to be
capable of consenting under the circumstances?

And why does all responsibility rest with a young
girl - rather than a dozen or so bulked-up blokes?

The 19 year old went to the police five days after
the event. Never mind if she's getting slapped in
the face with an erect penis while others watched.
She didn't object, so it must be fine. She's full of
loathing, feels suicidal, walked away from a sexual
encounter, blamed, shamed, and hurt.

And you gentlemen, don't think that's not completely wrong,
unethical,
not illegal mind, just wrong?

Well then I guess there is indeed no point in discussing
this topic any further.

It must be my "sheltered upbringing," that finds something
wrong with the fact that, (borrowing this quote from
Bettina Arndt's quote in The Week-end Australian), "Just
because a woman is silly enough to say yes to a couple of
star footballers doesn't mean she's inviting the entire
team to have a go at her."

See you all on another thread.

I still think the thread is a social comment.
We see reference to God, politics, and the view that a sport and those who play it maybe watch it, are different in matters of sex.
We also see sex as we see it, our own way, is seen by many to be the only way sex should take place.
And hugely funny to me, we see the idea that only men do the wrong thing, only men could?
Stubborn refusal by foxy to understand the evidence displayed so far, seems to point to this girl being willing at the start to have sex with at least 2 men, asking one for more.
Lets not forget ALL football codes, cricket, name the sport, female jockeys have told horrible story,s,but some believe NRL is the problem?
While on the subject of God, maybe it is not true, much in the written media is not, but its said catholic church do not want football players to visit their schools.
If true can we see some action about the never ending dreadful child rapes?
I suspect if we became free to talk about our first years of sexual activity it would make interesting reading.
Sex is not unusual, not dirty, not always within our own rules.
I am baffled by the news this lady is now married, has been for a while, her husband only found out when we all did.
And her wish? only that it all go away!
rational? not in my view.

Foxy:"why does all responsibility rest with a young
girl - rather than a dozen or so bulked-up blokes?"

No one has suggested it does, merely that the "bulked up blokes" aren't some form of low-life women-bashers, because she agreed at every step to what happened. Why should she bear no responsibility for her own situation?

Foxy:"walked away from a sexual
encounter, blamed, shamed, and hurt."

Except she didn't, did she? Her co-worker told of how she bragged about it. It was only when everyone made it clear theyweren't impressed that she got all upset. I still maintain she had other issues that would have come out, regardless.

csteele, as I said, she was a WOMAN, they were MEN.

All that to avoid answering the questions asked. They must be more difficult than I realised.

Foxy feel free not to reply if you really think that this is done but the parting shot warrants comment.

"And you gentlemen, don't think that's not completely wrong,
unethical, not illegal mind, just wrong?"

I can't find a framework to support action based on the idea of wrong in this context that lets me still hold firm to the idea of equality for women. If women of the age of consent are not really able to give consent then what else can't they make decisions about. I'll put my view on the issue of consent further down.

I can't find a framework that lets me say that group sex (or a group jert off) is so wrong that action should be taken about it that lets me also tell those who want action taken against homosexuals that it's not their business.

If I'm to support the right of women to choose then I have to support it even when they make choices which I don't think are in their best interests.

I don't want to give back control to those who think that those who make "wrong" choices need to be protected from themselves. History shows that the definition of wrong gets very broad when they get power.

If the report is correct that one of the footballers was rejected for being too ugly then I don't but they idea that the woman was intimidated into consenting. If the reports of bragging about the encounter are correct then it does not sound like consent was the issue. The impression I get is of someone reveling at the time in the power she exerted over a group of men. Have a look around the web for exhibitionists and you will find that there are some people who enjoy the power of being at the focus of the sexual attention of a group of people. There are women around who find power in the idea of being the woman in a gang bang (and plenty of men who would like to have multiple female partners in the one encounter).

R0bert

Csteele, I read the old testament and it told me to kill my neighbour
for working on the sabbath, but I really like my neighbour. Should
I take notice of the bible for advice in life?

Foxy, whilst you have a great big caring heart, methinks you don't
make a very good sleuth :)

Lets look at the evidence that we so far have from the press which
is all that we have to go by.

1. The female in question was still bragging about her taking on
half a football team, the day after the event, according to those
who were there at the time. Does that sound to you like she did
not consent?

2. She did in fact reject one fellow and he became the butt of jokes
by the other players because of it. So clearly she decided who
she had sex with.

3. This business of no power for females is a myth. Remember the
30 second rapist? The woman changed her mind in the middle of all
that sex, he landed up in jail for years because of it.

4. Men are well aware that if a woman changes her mind and says
no, they can land up in the klink for 6 years or so, hardly a slap
on the wrist. No wonder they are now using their mobile phones to
have evidence of her agreeing.

5. Years in jail because a woman changes her mind or insists on no,
is hardly no power. Fact is women call the shots these days.

If you read that Age URL on teenagers which I posted, you will notice
a little bit about motivation. Females very quickly change their
behaviour, depending on what others think of what they did. If it
is pats on the back, they do it again, if its frowned up by the rest,
they stop doing it. Women clearly care more about what others think,
then men.

My feeling is that it only hit this girl some days after the event
that she had been used. So she complained 5 days later.

A new benchmark - Does anyone ever think to check, at the time; to ask if the woman is enjoying herself? Can a man engaging in such things be achieving more than peer approval? He never gets enough, always wants more afterwards, and is not having good sex, anyway. Group sex - the only way we truly become the animals we actually are.