Belly
What would our country look like if we did not share the costs of education, health, so much more.
SHARE is the key word!

How can you say that? on what evidence?
15 million just on QLD pokies alone. Fact!

How much went into your butcher shop?
About a 10-15% increase for three weeks. But I have already told you that.

How much found its way via tax back to the government?
Heaps, though mainly through tabacco, grog and gambling taxes unfortunately.

Nicky
Perhaps there is a gap between 'award wages' and what is being paid in many cases. If so, I have no problem with anyone fighting for or protecting the 'award' wage. But surely $800 per day for a brickie is not an award wage! I come to this conclusion because you mentioned that awards have risen by CPI.

Now back to the thread.
Everyone should put thier personal feelings aside when debating as they cloud thier views somewhat.

If you are a unionist you should still have an open mind. After all, many unionists are simply that because they are either 'poms' or thier father was a unionist. ALL Austrailains should vote with an open mind and vote for the party that has the best policies.

As for cattle drowning, same applies here. One must be able to spet outside of their animal walfare circle and see what is happening for what it is.

There is no difference between drowning cattle and a failed crop. Both are grown for food and both failed due to mother nature. If the demand for meat was not there these cattle would not exist. The fact that they are living animals is a seperate issue.

Col, you are dead right mate, we have again lost the plot.

Finnaly, I think the libs have lost the plot. No more so than the labor days of Beasley, Crean and crew.

*So why don’t you ask Nicky what she’s doing and her friends to assist instead of just picking on Me.! *

Gertrude, I have asked you for very good reasons. You are
the only one on OLO, claiming to run an animal welfare organisation
in Queensland. Queensland is where cattle are starving and dying.

Nobody has berated others more on OLO when it comes to animal
welfare, then you have. Nobody has hijacked more threads and
turned them into animal welfare threads, then you have.

Nobody has claimed more love for animals on OLO then you have.

According to you, Govts, businesses, churches etc have it all
wrong.

So it is fair to say that your criticism of others, when it
comes to animal welfare, has been quite extreme.

Fair enough, but people in glass houses should not throw stones.

So I asked you a very fair question. Given that you are an
animal welfare organisation, what about those tens of thousands
of dying cows, right there under your nose in Queensland?

Don't you ever preach to me about live exports, whilst this sort
of disaster is going on, right there in your backyard.

rechtub, I still have some understanding of your views I disagree with them strongly.
Yes some welfare, not just the handouts, is miss spent wasted,we should not support ANYONE who just will not work.
Not interested in Col Rouge here and in my newest thread he uses insults to make up for his inability to use the English language to put me down, even called me troll?
But rest easy, my every comment, every single one is how I think, no regimentation I say it like it is.
My party had idiots like Simon Crean[gee his dad was far better] Latham, still not sure about our minister for defense, he has anti union thoughts.
But mate we, my party are in power to stay, worst crisis in this country's history, it is you know?
And the polls say it all, we are the party trusted to lead not yours.
It heartens me, the pain, the refusal to understand ,conservatives lost the last election, and the next.
Right now they have lost the plot.
Even more I am PUMPED that you and the unhappy Col think those of us who think different than you should blindly follow, ROFL!you two.

Yabby
'*You ' highjacked this thread. Not I . We 'were' posting on topic re the budget.

I might add, as soon as CJ, and our Prime Minister in waiting, + pale put forth arguments, why we should re think where the funds went, we saw two attempts to bring the thread to and end.

CJ then rightfully responded and pointed out he wasn`t finished.

We also requested people stop diverting the thread and answer questions.

Then *You crashed the thread accusing us of neglecting Animals. So you forced us to respond. Floods have nothing to do with live Exports Yabby.Our position is 'clear' we are only working in conjunction with RSPCA QLD on live exports.

I was* -'in response,'to you pointing out that according to Nicky, her friends at Animals Australia are the Peak Federal Umbrella for Animal Welfare and Activism QLD are also in QLD so why didnt you ask the same of Nicky! She cant answer that question now or ever.

As well your vetted interests are noted Yabby. Anything rather than face up to the fact that vaule adding is what we need put back into Australia.
A part of the funds most certainly should be going into our regional areas to put this country back on its feet. Had you not interupted the thread we were about to address that.

We have one chance to try to return a budget as the world market crashes. I have explained to you many times that people buy your product to create employment and inflastructure for 'their countries.'

This comes at an enoumous costs to the tax payer who have been proping up this cruel trade for years.
Australia can no longer afford to loose those value adding oportunitys to overseas simply because a small group with vetted interests reep huge amounts for themself via trading through the suffering of millions of animals.

Of course The Rudd Government should put some of that money into inflastructure to value add instead of sending off raw materials and jobs that go with it.

Nice try

Rehctub, I do take your point/s, and I also take Belly's. I support the union movement in principle, but I think it's important to recognise the distinction between the functions of awards, the supply/demand equation, and the influence of the CPI. Awards and supply and demand only have a distant relationship. If you were a brickie, and someone offered you $800 a week, would you say "no, I'll take $500"? Or "no, I only want what the award provides for". I don't think so.

Where I think the "wheels will fall off" in the supply/demand context is when unemployment rises, as it is now. Those high wages will disappear as more workers look for jobs. But I think it's good that awards are there for them, because many unskilled and young workers are very open to exploitation by some unscrupulous employers. I am not for a minute suggesting that you are one of those. There needs to be a safety net of some sort in place, and that is the function of awards (Belly, is that right?)

As for the animal welfare side-issue here, it would be better going to a thread of its own. I have already answered PALE's plaintive howl to the extent that I intend to. Nor do I think that this thread was the place for PALE to bring its slaughterhouse agenda or its self-promotion to. The meat industry will be only one of many affected by this global downturn. If there is to be a "rescue package", matters to do with manufacturing in Australia across all industries should be a part of it. We are being sold out to foreign interests.

Nicky

Belly

Just remember, once our PM hands out this lattest round of spending money, much of it to loosers (with a track record) then I guess it will be up to the conservitives to come in again and fix up the mess.

Also, cast your mind to the last time labor was in, I know it's hard to think back that long, but didn't they put the breaks on the workforce with thier famous 'unfair dismissal policy'. Smasll business just stopped employing people.

Here we go again with the unions about to be given more powers again so there goes employment growth in small business hey. If only you lot could see around the corner.

The last thing anyone should be doing is messing with Ir laws now.

Remember, like it or not, small business is the counties largest employer, mess with them and you will end up with egg on your face.

Only problem is, what do we have left to sell after they plumit us into the red again. We have no more testra's and the 58%ers will be fewer and farer between after your party ruins our employment.

You lot should be making it easier for business to employ people, not impossing more stress because you want to save the unrealistic wages your members have obtained of late.

It looks like business will be investing in automated equipment again as oppossed to unionised staff. At least the loan is a deduction, as oppossed to employing unionised staff that may well become another unfair dismisal saga.

Job creation and less red tape for emplyers is the key.

They just make it all to hard mate.