Countryperson
You are right, I was generalising to some extent and I do reconise that no all farmers are the same.

The facts are that many farmers in the past have done evrything in their power to avoid taxes. Things like, new tractors, harvesters etc when there has been nothing wrong with the old one, all in the name of tax minimisation. Often farmers will outlay 500K for a machine that gets used once per year. Now I know this has been addressed somewhat with contract harvesters as such but the reality is that you can't expect the greater community to support your interest payments because of what was essentially a poor business decision.

Now I notice you havn't answered my questions. And I am generalising as you may not be a banana farmer, so don't take this personally.
How can you justerfy $150 per box for bananas just becasue of market shortages when you received reliefe funding for having your crops wiped out by nature?

Did you pay back the reliefe funding from the additional $140 odd from each box or is that somehow different?

Remember, many families went without banabas but they still went to work and paid their taxes to support you in hard times. So why did you sharft them when you could have received the normal $11 per box for bananas knowing full well that most of us coudn't afford to eat bananas at $10 per kilo?

rehtcub, thanks for the comment on South Africa - here's more:

ISSUED 16 JANUARY 2004

DEATH SHIPS - WHEN WILL IT END?

125,000 sheep were on the MAYSORA when it docked in Durban on 15 January 2004 to load cargo. The sheep were on their way from Uruguay to Jeddah for slaughter. Early on the day the ship docked in Durban, carcasses of sheep were seen floating in the harbour.

NSPCA Senior Inspector Roland Fivaz confirmed that he boarded the vessel to check on the welfare of the animals. He found 162 dead sheep and “downers” — sheep that were unable to stand for whatever reason.

“This is just one day.”

“On our instruction, just under 800 sheep were moved to “sick pens”. We had to humanely destroy 11 sheep. All were too weak to stand. One had been trampled by other sheep. Her lamb of about 3 or 4 days old was beside her. We also had to destroy 3 lambs. They had been born on board. In one instance, the umbilical cord had not totally dried yet.

That’s how pitiful it was.”

Senior Inspector Fivaz explained that stockmen on the vessel “cleared out” daily and that hundreds of sheep that had died on the vessel had been thrown overboard before the ship had docked in Durban.

The export of live animals to Mauritius for slaughter raised the nation’s hackles when it was exposed on CARTE BLANCHE. At least one ship a month departs for Mauritius carrying cattle and sometimes goats, to be slaughtered in a barbaric manner on arrival. South Africa is a civilised country and we again call upon our government to give an undertaking that no more “ships of death” will be permitted in our country. There is no doubt that there is suffering onboard. Viable alternatives are available.

The MAYSORA has sailed. SPCA personnel witnessed the pitiful sight of over one hundred thousand animals confined on the vessel on their sea-journey to death. The NSPCA puts its support firmly behind the international moves and campaigns to have this practice stopped.

Ends

Nicky

*The facts are that many farmers in the past have done evrything in their power to avoid taxes.*

Rehctub, you city slickers don't try to minimise your taxes?
I remind you that most farmers don't have cash coming in the
door, like those shopkeepers do :)

But you are confusing a mumbo jumbo of facts, from bananas
to live exports. I've never grown a banana in my life and never
received a subsidy in my life, be that on interest or whatever.

If you want to can subsidies, do so by all means, but to all
industries, including the MV and all those other industries.

Where the majority of farmers differ to you, is that you trade
in the protected Australian market, competing with other Australians,
operating under the same rules as you do. 70% of what farmers
produce, in particular WA farmers, is exported onto global markets,
where they compete with heavily subsidised farmers from all over
the world. I can assure you, its alot rougher on the global
market, then in your protected Aussie market. I gather that
80% of farmers don't receive any subsidies, so thats clearly the
large majority.

Back to live exports. The majority of sheep for live exports come
from WA, the majority of cattle from the North. It was sheer union
bloody mindedness that drove those cattle onto boats.

Given that most sheep come from WA, where virtually no subidies
are paid and sheep are far cheaper then in the East, its clearly
not interefering with your price of meat over there, unless you
want to start trucking sheep across the country.

This week there were plenty of sucker lambs available in WA
for 50-60$ a head. If the meat industry don't buy them at that
price, then the shippers will. Clearly there is a huge difference
between what farmers in WA are paid for sheep and lambs and what
butchers in the East pay. Not only are processors making money
on slaughter fees, the so called fifth leg is all theirs to value
add. Skins, hearts, kidneys, livers, bloodmeal, meatmeal, bonemeal,
etc.

Yabby you are very right when it comes to the 'fith leg' as you call it.

I reffer back to 89 when farmers were lucky to raise one dollar per head for sheep. Roma Mitchel areas, however, those same sheep that sold for $1 cost me $15 landed into my shop. The other $14 was divied up between the 'fith legers'. That was and still is a scam.

As for WA lambs I have axcess to what is called Q Lamb from hillside abs in WA.

Now these are Xbreeds that are grain fed and although they may look 'hard' the eating quality is excelent. Freight costs and time delays are their downfall so I do know what you are saying here.

In saying this what is the eating quality of WA grass fed lambs in comparison of say Vic lamb or Tassie lambs which is where I buy from?

AS for live export, if every civilized country banned live exports then this would no longer be an option. Just imagine if we had an additional 4 million lambs/sheep per year for consumption domesticly. The favourite Sunday Lamb roast would once again become affordable to most instead of a dream as it is for many today.

*The favourite Sunday Lamb roast would once again become affordable to most instead of a dream as it is for many today.*

Ah rehctub, but you once again forget the problem. Its not the
farmgate price of lamb, its getting it from the farmgate, to the
consumer in an efficient manner. Its your rent, its ovetime payments
to staff etc.

This is exactly the problem with most farm products these days.
Your loaf of bread might have 15c worth of wheat in it, but it will
cost you 3-4$. etc.

Lets say the farmgate price of lamb is around 3$. Add a dollar a kg
to put it down a chain ( in reality it costs half that), add
another dollar a kg to cut it up on a bandsaw. The real cost of
that lamb is maybe 5$ a kg. The rest is extras.

We need new marketing methods to get that lamb to the consumer,
without going through your expensive rent shop :)

A home delivery service perhaps, for people who buy whole lambs?
What would you charge them per kg, for a whole lamb, delivered to
their door?

Q-lamb does what most prime lamb producers in the West do, based
on good science. The critical point in a lamb is the last two
weeks. You need to fill those muscle cells with glycogen, so
lambs need finishing on grain supplements, even if grazing pasture.
That way you land up with juicy, more tender meat.

Pure pasture reared lamb is more a stab in the dark and not as
consistant. It depends on what the lamb ate, how tough its life was
etc. Volatile fatty acids in grasses determine flavour, too much
skatole, caused by high protein, can cause an odour. Poor energy
levels can lead to dry and tough meat.

So a happy, well fed lamb, is in the interests of the lamb, as well
as the farmer and the consumer. Its a win-win. But it costs some
money to produce, people won't do it at a loss

Quick comment in the small hours. Its clear ‘nobody’ is happy. We need to take action ourselves. Government have NO intention of doing it.

The system has failed to deliver a fair go to Australians and Australian Animals.

Yabby re subs there are plenty of transport subs. I have always found however that only the greedy corps cash in.

If you thought the Governments - including states are concerned about how hard it is for the little butcher or small farmer your bananas.

What idiot destroys agriculture at a time like this especially when the worlds going to have trouble to feed itself.

What is the next generation going to eat? Pls don’t say food from china or I will throw up. We are too far away from other countries to rely on them to feed us. Not to mention it’s just stupid plain cruel to stick earth bound animals on boats for months and ship out our future jobs and value adding.

Right now you have imop a criminal situation giving MLA control over shire councils and where abattoirs can be built etc.?

How entrenched is this scam system. Perhaps that is why we see more chambers local council reps taking trips 'we pay for' to the Middle East.



They have pitched farmers against butchers and animal welfare against farmers etc...

We support the demands for a Royal Commission into the meat industry put forth by the Australian Beef Association.
Dismantle MLA and their big bosses stealing millions of tax payer’s funds they do not earn.
The butcher sums it up perfectly: =
*Live export rewards the grower, the transport companies and the agents. ....
Again=
The facts are that many farmers in the past have done everything in their power to avoid taxes.
Country person what do you mean by UNFORUTLETLY you can’t send your sheep to live exports?

Nicky FYI
http://www.warmwell.com/ap8rspca.html
Also it’s in this area Animal Welfare needs to learn. Saying its cruel for twenty years doesn’t cut it I am afraid