Hi all

I know I said I was leaving this thread, but there's some stuff I couldn't resist. CJ Morgan, you are absolutely right; from what I can gather, PALE's way of "promoting animal welfare" has got them off-side with every other group in the country, and overseas ones as well. It isn't surprising that you know nothing of their work - they won't answer any questions about it beyond alluding vaguely to MoUs with Muslim leaders and working with RSPCA Queensland. What they have done in any material sense seems rather obscure. But once again we have the plaintive cry that they want to know why Animals Australia, along with everyone else, won't work with them. They KNOW why, and it has, I suspect, little to do with their "project/s" and everything to do with how they treat anyone who disagrees with them, as we have seen so often on this forum. It's a kind of "if you can't beat them, beat them to death" mentality, whereby you abuse and insult everyone in the hope that someone will listen to you one day.

Cowboy Joe, I would regard PETA as pretty much the penultimate animal advocacy organization, and certainly the most successful. But, as with any animal protection group, people who are not cruel to animals have nothing to fear from them. Not a difficult concept really. And trust me - PALE is absolutely no threat to PETA, or any other animal advocacy group.

Nicky

This is the group that the likes of dickie and nicky support.

Some quotes from Peta.

“ Even if animal tests produced a cure for AIDS, we’d be against it.”
— PETA president Ingrid Newkirk

“ To give a child animal products is a form of child abuse.”
— Neal Barnard, PETA medical advisor and former president of the PETA Foundation

“ We’re at war, and we’ll do what we need to win.”
— PETA vice president Dan Matthews

“ I find it small wonder that the laboratories aren’t all burning to the ground. If I had
more guts, I’d light a match.”
— PETA president Ingrid Newkirk

“ When you see the loss of 9 billion [animal] lives each year, it’s inappropriate to hold a sign or pass out a petition. It’s appropriate to go out and burn down the ... farm."
— Joshua Harper, convicted domestic terrorist and a recipient of $5,000 from PETA in 2001

‘Young activists should “not be afraid to condone arsons.”
----PETA “humane education lecturer” Gary Yourofsky

“ Everything we do is based at adults.”
— PETA president Ingrid Newkirk denies targeting children on CNN, (March 21, 2002)

“We are after the kids who are looking and searching for something.”
— “PETA Kids” coordinator Marci Hansen, (June 22, 2003)

“Our campaigns are always geared towards children and they always will be.”
— PETA vice president Dan Matthews, Fox News Channel (December 19, 2003)

READ THE ABOVE THREE QUOTES: WHOSE LYING?

In the words of its founding president Ingrid Newkirk, PETA’s goal is “total animal liberation.”

In addition to spelling the end of meat and dairy foods, this extremist organization has vowed to eliminate animals from zoos, aquariums, circuses, and rodeos. Its activists campaign aggressively to ban fishing, fur, leather, wool, pet ownership, and biology-class dissection in schools. And PETA opposes all medical research on animals (including lab rats)—even to cure diseases like AIDS and cancer.
Some of PETA’s attempts to draw children into vegetarianism are irresponsibly misleading —such as its claims that non-vegetarians are more susceptible to illness.

Peta are clearly a vegan cult, as fanatical as many religious cults.

As we can see from Nicky-Dickie, their followers can be just as
irrational and fanatical, as followers of other religious cults.

Thats why I call them the vegan Taliban.

Sorry to intrude again - apologies for responding to PALE&IF'S silly question earlier. Put it down to frustration, in a sense. As it happens I live in a small country town and conduct a business whose fortunes are directly linked to the export of halal mutton and goat. I've read this crap from PALE&IF for some years now - mostly I bite my digital tongue (so to speak) but occasionally I have to say something.

Mind you, another reason I generally steer clear of the animal welfare debates at OLO is that they usually degenerate into interminable shitfights between the usual suspects - much as I tend to involve myself in when it comes to more sociological and political topics, of course ;)

As far as PETA goes, I think they're a bunch of radical ratbags who have had actual success in getting sheep farmers to look seriously at less cruel ways of managing their livestock. Sometimes we need radical ratbags.

In my opinion, radical ratbags like PETA can be a force for good, in that they have measurable if modest positive effects on animal husbandry. One doesn't have to be a vegan socialist lesbian to appreciate that.

On the other hand, fringe groups like PALE&IF seem to achieve very little other than to occupy the waking hours of a handful of self-obsessed windbags. Little wonder the serious players don't want to know about them.

Hi all

CJ Morgan, thanks for that (I think). PETA does do some radical stuff - I guess their fur campaign is probably the strongest I've seen. But I do believe that supporting the fur industry is wrong because the methods used on these animals (over 90% of the world's fur comes from China, arguably one of the most cruel countries on earth) are egregiously cruel. And it isn't only PETA who have exposed that; other organizations have gone in and exposed it along with the dog and cat meat trade - again egregiously cruel.

There was a doco on not so long ago on the Chinese and Korean dog meat trade. They were quite open about hanging dogs and beating them to death for the adrenalin, one butcher saying that he favoured electrocution (through the dog's anus). Australia exports Greyhounds to Korea and Macau.

Australia has banned the importation of dog and cat fur, but because there are no truth in labelling laws in China, the only way to find out what sort of fur it is on imported Chinese clothing and souvenirs is by DNA testing. They call it things like Arctic Fox and the like. It really isn't any secret that countless animals are skinned while they are alive and conscious.

They also exposed the Indian cattle slaughter "marches" - where cattle are made to walk hundreds of miles to be slaughtered and when they collapse, pepper and tobacco are rubbed into their eyes to make them get up, or their tails are broken bit by bit (so much for cattle being sacred!).

If opposing things like these makes us ratbags, then I'll line up with the ratbags every time.

I'm not a member of any group, nor do I donate funds to one. But if I were going to be, it would not be PALE, for all the reasons you state here.

Nicky

Here is some of PETA`s work.
Pls take the time to read it.
This is work pale supports 100%

Meet David Waitzman, an animal experimenter at the University of Connecticut Health Center. Waitzman had a $1.7 million grant from the federal government that funded his cruel research on monkeys. He used the money to drill holes into monkeys' skulls and implant steel coils in their eyeballs over and over again.

Let me share with you a shocking account from an actual cage log of Cornelius, one of the tortured monkeys in Waitzman's experiments. Cornelius suffered from tremors and seizures for more than eight months after Waitzman drilled into his skull, yet Waitzman continued to use Cornelius in experiments in which he was held immobile in a restraint chair and his brain was poked and prodded. On his final day, Cornelius started vomiting and convulsing during an experiment. The convulsions developed into grand mal seizures, and Cornelius died from cardiac arrest....

I guess its easy to pick up on quotes made by people who feel so outraged at what they have seen.

When you look at these vidoes and read more and more is it any wonder Igred said whatever.

As for you Morgan all I can say is like a few others you have zero knowledge of pales programes.. There are several projects underway and each one of those projects are headed by a lawyer.
No we dont post everythiung we are doing be it farmers, Muslims or Government.
Whatever pale people do its certainly more than you have done.
As I said your a crude little man with some sort of personality order IMOP.
You have NEVER shown concern for animals - or anything else other than of course CJ Morgan.