Hi all

Yabby, great (old) study. They put a population of reindeer on an island (INTERFERING with nature and for no apparent purpose), forget to monitor them, let them starve and go over a shoot a whole lot of them. Certain parallels with Australian farmers really. Breed more animals than nature would do in their normal state (without any human interference; there are over-populations now because of farming interventions) and massacre what you don't want, one way or another.

PALE, I have seen your petition, many times (sigh). What exactly have you done with it? Unsuspecting members of the public in many countries appear to be putting their names to something that, so far as we know, has gone nowhere. I have told you about electronic petitions before, but of course you won't listen. And if that one short (hearsay) letter is the best your "investigator" could do in two years, let's say I'd rather put my faith in Lyn White and her co-investigators from CIWF and PETA, for obvious reasons.

What exactly was the wording of this "motion" and to what "congress" was it taken? Was it passed?

I believe that you are sincere in your belief that your project is the solution but you must admit that it appears to have made little impact, particularly in comparison with the investigations of Animals Australia.

Where control measures are used, clearly once an animal has been declared a "pest" or "feral", it seems to matter little how cruel the methods used are. It should be obvious that a barbiturate component in any form of baiting should be mandatory so that the animal effectively is unconscious when it dies from the effects of the bait. But Dickie is wiser on science than I am.

Nicky

*They put a population of reindeer on an island (INTERFERING with nature and for no apparent purpose), forget to monitor them, let them starve and go over a shoot a whole lot of them.*

No Nicky, nature let them starve, the deer could have swum there,
thats how species moved around. Over time, sea levels drop and rise,
some species walked.

If you want to call it interefering with nature, then you and Dickie
are here, because nature was interfered with. So what are you doing
here?

Fact is, there are some realities of the past, that we have to
accept and deal with as best we can. Fact is that if this land
were abandoned tomorrow (I did not clear it) some herbivore species
would move in, eat the grass, multiply and starve to death when
there are too many, unless predators rip em to bits. Stop trying
to deny reality!

That is exactly why veganism is little more then a feelgood philosophy,
for those who don't understand biology.

Nicky
I have explained before I am not at liberty to post confidential privy biz information involves others. HOWEVER accept the which invitation and sign a non discloser and ask away.

The petition was posted in support of Dickie re the comment of
Myopinion. That ought to have beeen clear.
Its a world wide petition giving people an opportunity to post their thoughts on the live animal trade.

Why on earth wouldn’t you be pleased to see any petition to support less cruelty to animals? You’re a strange one Nicky.

The comment about Dickie being bright enough, to chase up on, saffron- I can see in hindsight I could have been more considerate of your feelings.

No Nicky that is not what I meant and I am sorry you have taken it that way.

It’s just that I have spoken with Dickie in the past when she was kind enough to call our office. So it goes without saying I sort of relate to her a bit more I guess.

I have always said their is nothing wrong with a person bar their intention.

Regarding the person employed in ME for two years couldn’t get a more reliable witness.

This isn’t some sort of competition while these poor animals suffer.

You also know we support Lyn. IMOP is the real problem is you all follow like a cult or sheep the leader whose been their for over twenty years.
It requires new leadership. There is a big personality problem throughout animal welfare. It comes from the top and it’s a rotten example. IMOP if you worked 'without that influence' you could go a long way.

BUT you’re stuck with this PETA mind set.

Try to understand the problems "must be solved within the industry."

That means we need animal lovers involved in the meat trade.

Sorry but that’s the answer. You can’t make people care BUT you CAN put people in charge who Do.

There’s your answer to stop cruelty to farm animals.

Hi again all

Yabby, I'm not going to read the old study again to argue the toss, I made my point/s. I have given up going over the same old ground with you.

PALE, that is your opinion of Animals Australia, and I assume you mean Glenys Oojges. She may well say the same about you. That is your opinion and you are of course free to express it, but so far as I know, Glenys has excellent credibility in the animal advocacy community. I've read some of her scientific papers and they were excellent, nor have I generally been able to fault her campaign management. There are some things that we all could do better, but simply because she has chosen not to adopt PALE's philosophy is no reason to demand that she be removed, nor is she likely to be. I believe she has a strong following.

I simply believe that a petition has to be suitable for the purpose - in fact, it has to HAVE a purpose. That means if should be in a form in which it will be accepted by the government/s to whom it is directed. Government/s rarely accept electronic petitions (but we have been down this road before).

I do support PETA's objectives, and I support Animal Liberation's as well, having spent time with Mark Pearson, but that has nothing to do with a lack of discernment; I just happen to agree with their philosophies. Conversely, I rarely agree with Hugh Wirth(less), but I really don't think your threats will bother him too much.

I'm going to pass on your "trade secrets" too. I'd be very surprised if there's anything much worth signing non-disclosure agreements over.

Nicky

Hi Nicky

Have a look at the other thread where myopinion's just talked my glass eye to sleep.

Gawd....how many grams of Zoloff did he take this time?

Now he's suffering another manic episode!

Anyhow (thankfully) I'll be off the radar for a day or so to complete the final drafts of my correspondence.

Toodle pip.

Cheers, Dickie. I think he needs something a bit stronger than Zoloft - one of the anti-psychotics, perhaps like Lithium.

And I'm doing a bit of the same. Catch up soon,
Nicky