Gertrude, you are ignoring my point completely. I am not talking
of Malaysia, not even Australian livestock, but the 12 million
non Australian livestock. Some might be slaughtered in rich countries
in super plants. We don't need to worry about those. But clearly
some are slaughtered in small outfits which are not rich and where
we could make a difference.

Those are the places where AA go with their camera. The places
that you complain about and think are horrific. Okay, so why not
do something about those places?

If the animal welfare movement are really concerned about animal
welfare, then they will see my point and support the proposal.
If they are mostly a bunch of vegans, then of course they won't
have anything to do with animal slaughter and would rather let
those animals in the ME suffer, then help to address the problem.

Vegans of course would like to shut all us farmers down too.
Perhaps sending WA farmers broke is their goal, given that they
think that we are evil.

Well there it is, a way to improve animal welfare in the ME,
for all non Australian animals. Either you people care about
animals or you don't. 12 million animals matter, if not to you,
then certainly to me. Those 12 million will still be going through,
no matter what the live trade does.

Yabby

Yes all right, I hear you, I will go a little slower sorry.

I wasnt 'ignoring' you either, you were talking about Indonesian.

Then again if your not talking about Malyasia how can I talk about Halal to you.

They will be the hub of Halal World wide Yabby make no mistake.

Halal will go from there to ME.

I am prepaired to lobby for funds to improve plants world wide.

Thats what were were going to do with the funding from HKM anyway

I was however pointing out none of these countries are without funding.

Certainly not Indonesia. Although of course they are not in as strong position as others.

Yabby for Halal plants theres simply no shortage of funding.

The thing is they dont and wont spend it on our Animal Welfare standards.

They are still moaning about that one box they had to purchase- and they are rolling in money.

More chilled Halal will come out of Brazil and go via there and jAKIM if we dont get plants running from Australia to JAKIM.

Jakim are the key for Australian Halal to be accepted .

Also Yabby, I think everybody wants to improve animal welfare world wide.

Not just for live exports but many other projects like the bears etc.

Anyway to get back on track re your suggestions.

I would still need some figures. You said the industry are working hard to introduce this. Then they must have some figures somewhere.

That might not be the answer you want from me. I said I wont walk away from a chance to make some type of impovments for animals. So we can at least discuss it sensibly.

Myself, I will have a better idea of where things are going after the weekend.
Seems to me you lot have already got it worked out= For Australia to supply the raw materials and other Countries to Value add.
To be honest

Hi all
Yabby, you can be amazingly obtuse, or is it that you do not read properly, or understand what is being said to you? Obviously no animal welfare organization is going to provide support, material or otherwise, for a trade they believe to be inherently cruel. Throwing in the Tim D'Arcy "red herring" that if they cared about animal welfare in the Middle East they would contribute is fatuous in the extreme.

It has been made perfectly clear, time and time again, that you cannot change the thinking of these people, that Australia's influence is, and has always been, minimal (in fact, they are laughing at Australia's pitiful efforts; only we know that is is just a publicity exercise), in dealing with Australian animals, never mind those of other countries. Are you saying that animal welfare organizations would succeed where the mighty MLA has failed?

If Australia stopped sending them, it would be sending a clear message that the brutality is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. What other countries would then be forced to do is consider their own positions in the light of that message. New Zealand already has woken up to that not too difficult notion.

Cheers
Nicky

*It has been made perfectly clear, time and time again, that you cannot change the thinking of these people*

Nicky, name me a nation on Earth, that has not changed its thinking
over time. The ME is just like Australia, in that it is made up
of all sorts of people. Good people, nasty people, etc. etc.
Your stereotyping tens of millions of people as all being exactly
the same, is hogwash.

*it would be sending a clear message that the brutality is unacceptable and will not be tolerated.*

Rubbish, they would go on doing what they have done for hundreds
and thousands of years, with 12 million animals sourced from
outside Australia, plus another 4 million from other countries
that have livestock in places like Africa. Money talks and oil
money talks loudly. As we speak, the Americans are funding
Ethiopia to massively increase its livestock output, with the ME
the destination of choice.

*What other countries would then be forced to do is consider their own positions in the light of that message*

Hehe, I can just see that happening in Sudan, Ethopia, China,
Somalia, Kenya and other suppliers. Nicky, time to grow up dear :)

.

Poor Yabby, you really should understand that patronising does not win you the argument. It just shows that you HAVE no valid argument, and it is your only tactic when you are backed into a corner.

In your post you have totally contradicted yourself; did you not read it before you hit "add comment"?

You cannot change the way these people regard animals, you only have to look at the impassive women and children watching the torture to recognize that it is a way of life. If they have less animals available to them they will have to learn to live with frozen meat, and find another way of life (and of entertaining themselves)

Cheers
Nicky

Yabby

For people to change they must first be taught.

You have often suggested to Nicky that Animal Welfare groups educate ME people - isnt that right?

I think Nicky would argue we need to clean up our own back yard before we attack others.

Considering Australia is the largest live exporter of Animals World wide, dont you think its just a tad arrogant.

I mean do you not see how that might rub some people up the wrong way.

Then again on the other hand you argue what about all the other animals.

You accuse animal welfare groups saying they do not care.

Its very clear that Animal Welfare groups world wide do care.



Now looking at it from all angles, and not taking either side, I have come up with these facts and thoughts.

Australia`s withdrawal of live exports would create an inbalance of supply would wide.( Yes it would Yabby long term)

It would have a domino effect causing Halal shortage. That would be more than a little inconvient.

It would be a major drama especially as the demand for Halal increases world wide.

We are close to Maylasia, who eventually will be the hub of Halal.

So just imagine if congress for eg decided to seek a ban on live exports that would bring much things back to Australia.

Then=Australia and Maylasia would become the world supplier,- or one of the largest at very least.

Now that might not get the tick of aproval from USA

Still its food for thought. We are looking at hundred and hundreds of billions of dollars.

Plenty to inist that ME plants comply to world wide accreditation standards.

Plenty of funding to build their own label Halal meats plants to their own standards after a international accreditation was introduced.

One thing I am sure of they wouldnt be asking MLA and livecorpe to enforce it:)

Sorry Yabbs Not your night.