Alexandra
It would be clear to everybody pale are dedicated animal lovers.
Sure we have our own ideas on how to improve things.

The answer is to provide competition to give farmers a good price by value adding.

Nicky says we are critizing libbers. “No” We are not overall.., not if you look back over ‘all our comments’ praising Animals Australia and Animal Liberation they massive amount of work for Animals.

We are however asking Lib Members to consider they should not follow like sheep in black listing us either.

We are the only group actually working on an alternative. I think that’s sad. I don’t blame the members. I blame the leaders and wonder indeed just how political live exports really are.

How far does the rot go in the Government? That correct- It goes to the top. So don’t dismiss the possibility that ‘ others play. ( I said Some)

Nicky does not worry about the truth or the facts. That is pale is here to help animals and find alternatives to live exports and intensive farming.

Nicky’s continued attacks on pale are a matter of record on OLO.. She purposely posts in a aggressive attacking manner towards us forcing us to defend ourselves. IMOP this is done on purpose.

She continues on with her blind hatred and jealousy.

. I put it to both Debbie and Suzanne need to give it a rest.

PALE joined OLO as an institute member to reach out and educate the public about cruelty to animals in conjunction with RSPCA QLD. We are a hard working bunch of unpaid members doing long hours and mostly self funding. So ask yourself if you care about Animals why would you want to get rid of us?

Alexandra, also each Premier has powers to act under his or her state in Trade. That’s simply a fact.
Something else others ought to have been pushing on a State level instead of just Federal IMOP.= Here is just one example=
http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:J77VIfHlx-0J:www.legislation.qld.gov.au/Leg_Info/publications/Legislation_Handbook.pdf+state+premiers+have+trade+ministers+reasonability&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=au

Peter Beattie MP
Premier and Minister for Trade

I apoligise Yabby and Nicky

The post above was meant in reply to the other thread.

I am the last person that would want to get between what I can only see as a small break through that Nicky is now asking the right questions and talking about the real problems behind live exports.

I would like to say thank you to both Yabby and Nicky for communicating in a very sensible manner.

Yabby if you can explain it to Nicky and others where the real problem that lies behind live exports and what we must do to fix things- You will have done far better than I.
Again Very sorry to barge in between sensible posts between you Yabby and Nicky.

Thank You Yabby I appreciate your time to explain it to Nicky.
Have a nice evening everybody

Hi all
Yabby, thanks for that again. So, forgive my ignorance about WA, but if that was able to happen in the eastern states, why not in the west? Is there no infrastructure that the Swift (?) group can buy? I don't know how operational the Tasman group was in Victoria and Tasmania but I'm assuming that they were "going concerns".

Is it that Fletcher has such control over there that no-one else will enter the market? Does he receive government support? Surely not everyone is working in mining. Does Graeme Haynes have any control or input into what happens over there? If not, why not?

PALE, I will accept your last message over the previous one, largely because I really just don't want to go there with all the claptrap again, particularly about people being who you think they are in your imagination.

Cheers
Nicky

Nicky, the East has a history of building meat plants, due to the free market in the
past. Not so in WA, due to Govt regulation until a few years ago. In the East
Govts try to encourage new investment, as rural votes count. Not so in WA.

Ideally a new plant would be built on a Greenfield site, where it is thought through,
in terms of function, staff, EPA rules etc. Red tape is huge, so unless Govts facilitate
getting through all that red tape, investors tend to walk away, as its too hard. They
buy another old plant, perhaps patch it up and do what they can. That is what T&R
have done, with an old mothballed plant. Even then, last time I talked to a Govt
advisor, he told me it would take them 3 years just to clear the EPA rules. We’ll
see, there have been farmer protests about this, so I gather the the Govt has now
got off its arse a little bit on this one.

T&R would be a great player. When they enter the saleyards, prices rise immediately.
They are wide awake globally in terms of marketing etc.

The Brazilians are new to Australia and in a short time have bought a huge slice
of the beef processing sector, not just the Tasman Group. I would say that they
will consolidate all that, before even thinking of WA, which is a shame.

No Fletcher does not now receive Govt support, he is simply very large in comparison
to others over here and he is very efficient, so makes big money. They are small,
don’t have his economies of scale, or his efficiencies, so their answer is simple,
rather then try to compete with him, its easier to just pay farmers less. As we
have a captive market here, unlike over East, farmers have little choice but accept.

Farmers in WA are told that we should be thankful to obtain slaughter space, at
whatever price decided by those with the capacity. So some grades in WA are
worth 50% of the ES price.

Hi all
Yabby, I can see why you believe that that sucks, and it does. It really seems like solid government intervention to favour the live export trade and stifle local meat processing. So what should we be doing? Demanding a review of the process for having these places approved on animal welfare grounds? Have you read the "Abattoir Report" at www.liveexportshame.com? (I know you don't like that site, but it is an excellent report and it does argue your case very well). Just to clarify, is T&R a new player against Fletcher over there (sorry, I've got a bit lost in it all). If so, does Fletcher have the capacity to force them out of business (like Coles and Woolworths have small retailers)?

My personal view is that the pressure of this international campaign against long-distance transport will put an end to the live export trade; it may not be soon, but I think it will happen. When it does, the WA government is going to find itself with a lot of angry farmers on its hands, I suspect, for destroying the meat industry over there. The WA government should be looking at taking a pro-active position sooner rather than later, I think. The problem you guys have got is public perception; people think that because you send animals on live exports that ALL farmers are inherently cruel and that's something you'll have to address at some point. Preferably with some government support.

Cheers
Nicky

Nicky, I think you are wrong about the so called international campaign, as people
are aware that it is still largely driven by the global veggie-vegan movement.
Something like 80% of Australians still buy battery eggs after all. Americans
produce most of their beef in feedlots, etc, Europeans practise factory farming on
an intensive scale. Based on any kind of objective criteria, the live trade from
Australia measures up against all these countries.

I think that costs will eventually play a role, for its not cheap to ship and feed
a live sheep. Farmers costs are rising too, fertiliser prices have just doubled,
so the West Australian sheep flock will keep diminishing, as land is used for
other purposes, like more crops, sold for hobby farms, tree farms etc.

The live sheep trade also plays an incredibly valuable role in times of drought
etc, for Australians industrial relations system is not flexible enough to come
up with practical solutions in times of drought.

Eventually an innovative meat player might turn up, who uses large scale
automation and innovative marketing, to provide cheaper meat to the
ME public, without screwing the producer. They would then win over the farmers
and the consumers and the live trade would drop significantly, as that could be
done far cheaper then live shipping.

T&R is new to WA in terms of processing, but not new to Australia. They are
a similar size to Fletcher and just as efficient, so no, he could not send them
broke. I’m not sure when the final go ahead will be given to go ahead and build
that plant, it will depend on the T&R board and on the final Govt approvals.
Last time I heard, that was not far away.

The present Govt don’t take a pro live trade stance, they just let the market prevail.
Their argument is that if they assist one player, they have to assist them all.

Fact is however, that today meat processing is about volumes of scale and efficiency,
global marketing abilities etc. WA still only has one active player like that.