PALEIF in the name of “Activism” sheep shipments have been sabotaged, sprayed with pig fat etc. illegal acts designed to diminish the legal reward due to farmers.

Personally I would sue the perpetrators into bankruptcy if anyone were to do exercise the “activist” discretion in my direction.

I would ensure their future was a miserable as I could possibly make it, acting within the law.

As for “Don’t you know there ARE no Animal Welfare laws just codes that are unenforceable?”

Ask yourself why no laws, why nothing is unenforceable and get onto your state and federal politicians and lobby to have laws enacted. Until then, activism is just a polite word for “Anarchy” and not with a rat.

RSPCA if they are failing in their duty, you should take it up with them. Not those doing what remains “legal”.

“Yes Col Rouge it would be nice if people respected the authorities.”

And it is people who support your type of radical organization who think respect for authority is optional. I smell hypocrisy and its coming from the radical welfare lobby.

Dickie such hyperbole, the stuff of a withered mind.

I see you seem ti not found those references to me supporting cartels eh Dickie?

Tell me who on earth is going to take exception and react to Australia’s damaged reputation?

PETA or some other bunch of retarded offspring of wealthy parents, with more spare time than real problems in their life?

"Is it rational debate to call Australian farmers NAZI?"

You embellished the contents of my post, Belly? Why do you hide behind a mask of neutrality? It's obvious you condone live exports. Why not say so?

You are well aware that I refrained from alluding at all to the "Australian farmer." Ethical Australian farmers are not the subject of this thread. The live export industry is.

I am well aware that most creatures are eventually food for other creatures, however, I have very legitimate reasons to oppose the false and deceitful illusions perpetrated by the live export industry, which in reality is determined to mask the gruesome and cruel torture chambers, the death camps, where the barbaric industry is determined to maintain the status quo of practices which should be relegated to the past.

The live export industry's delusions of denial grow more emphatic every year as do the government subsidies and the profiteering by a greedy cartel. This is obvious when this nation allows the industry to grow animals for export which realises less than one billion dollars annually in revenue whilst the chilled and frozen meats are somewhere around the 6 billion dollar mark.

The institutionalised torture of some 4 or 5 million export livestock annually has seen enormous suffering by the victims. The industry continues to operate with gross inefficiencies. Whilst live exports are forecast to rise, the industry remains physically and economically obsolete and morally bankrupt.

The live export industry is notorious for ignoring the urgent need to restructure land-use practices and the necessity to meet new infrastructure demands in water, energy and transport.

Local abattoirs have been put out of business by the live export industry and livestock are having to endure a 3,000 kilometre journey by truck to meet their fate in some distant slaughterhouse.

Media coverage of Australia's cruelty has expanded to England, Sweden, Norway, America, New Zealand, the Middle East and no doubt other countries of which I am unaware.

Are we to regard the dumping of some 42,000 dead and diseased animals overboard last year as mere collateral damage?

Wow dickie, you certainly have talent for writing melodrama! Of course we don’t
want to let the facts interfere with these stories, as then the talent in
melodrama would be wasted.

So vegans and veggies in many countries are outraged by Australia? Umm so what?
In each of their countries, there are all sorts of factory farms. Perhaps these countries
should clean the crap off their own butts, before being concerned about the Australian
livestock industry. I remind you that the Australian sheep and cattle industries are
based on the most animal friendly farming around, out in the open sky, chomping
pasture and admiring the view, unlike countless industries in the countries that
you mention.

Yes, they might spend from 4 days- 2 weeks on a boat, again chomping food and
gaining weight. That is a tiny period of their lives, unlike the factory farmed
production from the countries that you mention.

Now that we have put various people on these boats, including farmer's kids and
others, we find that conditions are nowhere near those described by animal
liberation fanatics such as yourself. None of you has managed to mention a single
fault in Cameron Morse’s report , when it came to his trip on the Becrux.

Not everyone relies on historical archives from 60 Minutes for their information.
Yes there were some bad operators in the past. But they left the industry when it
became more and more regulated, with the highest standards in the world
applying to Australian livestock export standards.

Once animals arrive in the ME, they generally go into large holding areas, which
have shade, food and now some even have chilled water! How many Australian
feedlots have chilled water on tap for their livestock?

According to you, animals gaining weight, with chilled water on tap is torture.
Dickie, writing fairytales full of melodrama has a huge future for you!

4 million animals arrive fine, 40’000 turned into fish food instead of human food,
what is the problem? The glass is 99% full after all.

By pelican,

PALE I would really like
…
Pale replies
No you wouldn’t Pelican. You think pale are awful animal killers... That’s why you all blacklisted us because we at least acknowledge there’s got to be an alternative put on the table.

By Pelican
If government funding is being used to push MLA's views….

PALE
Err, Ah Sorry you lost me. So you mean you don’t know that already?

By Pelican
,. On that point, does the RSPCA receive government funding?

PALE
Yup 2% and WHY shouldn’t we ALL share responsibility for Animals?

By Pelican
the argument about these kids and their backgrounds is really irrelevant.

Pale replies

Pelican these twenty years old wouldn’t have the foggiest like their parents before them. Farmers are farmers and have never followed politics. Do you realize this that live Animal Export trade and Issue has NOTHING to do with farmers don’t you?

Pelican said

I would say stick to the crux of the debate - the cruelty aspects.

Pale replies

Your wrong again- This thread is to debate the reason live exports are being promoted” over abattoirs and red meat industry.”?

Pelican said

There is nothing to stop PALEIF or the RSPCA enlisting their own ambassadors.

Pale replies
What exactly is your problem? RSPCA are snowed under with funding issues and many hands on projects plus mouth to feed and vet inspect and prosecute. Just how do you think PALE could match the funding of MLA.?

Pelican
I would liken …
I`m speaking from HKM chair. btw quite frankly with friends like you the animals certainly don’t need enemies.
Don’t tell me- let me guess Libber?

These young farmers’ kids are just being used as tools by these live exporters who hide behind women kids youth company names in front of company names.

Why cant they see = These Animal Shipping Agents are the scum of the earth. Note I said Animal Shipping Agents and The Government MLA and Livecourpe Elders AWB and many others.

Not the farmers they are just being used as tools.

Speaking of which Yabby whats your agenda.

I hope I can get some latitude to reply to Dickie without childlike threats of legal action.
I support live exports, once had some doubts we did it well but know if we do not do it others will.
I totally honestly believe most Australians do.
Almost every post from yabby speaks for me.
And I truly think most Australians.
I want no war with this forums animal welfare group, I have read every post from that group and find it does not in my view best represent animal welfare.
It is posts like the one I complained about that firm my views.
In threads such as this I have seen claims that to support live exports makes us unAustralian.
Even more likely to hurt your children, some what baffled by continuing references to a thread about Labor and China I often re read it but find no reality in the claims.
My views are based on reading the forum seeing what is posted and my life time refusal to except radical views as true.
And in no way Dickie do I dislike you but self control is needed others views have value.
On my wall is your post about my last little dog , it is of great personal value.
My right to think as I wish is too live exports is not the end of the world and here to stay.
It will not bring down a government nore will it ever change the way we vote or think.
It will be better safer and less cruel but it will continue.

PALE

Blimey!

I found your last post to me nonsensical. If this is the way you conduct your dealing with other organisations I don't hold out much hope for the animals you are trying to protect. At least the RSPCA is on the right track and have some credibility in the fight against live animal exports and I have posted a link to some of their media releases here:

http://www.rspca.org.au/mediareleases/mr.asp

I believe I was polite in my post so I am not sure why you are taking offence. When I mentioned funding to the RSPCA I was trying to help out by referring to the uneven playing field and governance ie. something PALE should check out. I asked how much the RSPCA receives by comparison because I was under the impression they got zilch. Do you actually read the posts carefully?

Animal welfare is too important to get sidetracked by the issues you raised in the opening post about the newspaper article, is what I was arguing.

You accuse me of being a Libber. I don't know what that is (unless you mean Liberal voter in which case the answer is a resounding NO but really none of your business). I am sure the people within your own group don't always agree on every aspect, it would be a rare organisation where all members agreed 100%.

My commitment to animal welfare is not in question - and if you wish to detract from the thrust of my argument by using this low handed tactic, then this debate cannot hope to continue in any meaningful or rational way.