Hello Dickie

Thanks .Signed it and will pass it around. See if the web master RSPCA QLD can put it up.

Put it up on our new site. Also ask GY to post it on OLO.

reminds me must put our petition.

Well Yabby What you havent done is to explain why you dont support abattoirs being opended to kill the animals here and send them in a box.?
Its good for the country and I do agree with er, Rojo that Australia is a Ag country.

Considering where we are placed in the world by ourselves its just as well.
You will probably write back saying you are not against abattoirs or red meat industry owners.

However you are in effect Yabby. Everything you do opposes us.

Then you will say why should they farmers suffer. You know very well nobody is out to hurt farmers.

In the first place this problem was not caused by the farmers.

In a way they are a victim of the big corperate sly
organisations like the poor animals. Now however all farmers are aware of the facts.

I regect your comment about the pictures. Anybody used to live stock can see clear signs of distress. If you cant then I must be talking to a live animal export agent because its clear to anybody understand lifestock and even lay people.

Maybe thats it because you sure dont talk like a farmer. That comment you made about Nicky being a fish wife for eg. Thats not how a farmer talks.
Thats somthing that a person possibly with a English more upper class mum would say.

Regarless you should be helping to open plants and slaughter here.
For your country if not the Animals.

Since the Australian Muslim leaders have come out saying quite clearly muslims dO NOT require animals alive there is 'no excuse'

Not that there ever was.

Goodnight, Dont stay up to late.


Goodnight also Yabb( I think:)

Hi all
Dickie, thank you for that link, I have already done it and circulated it. I doubt if starving dogs to death for the sake of "art" would even win approval from Yabby and Rojo.

Dear me, lads, I do seem to have hit a nerve. What I meant was that we (I mean my household) survive as far as possible on what we grow ourselves (vegetables and fruit), although I have to admit that my dogs are not convinced about vegetarian diets, and we do buy feed for our (pet) chooks, who are refugees from a battery farm.

It would be interesting if every household in Australia did that. Where would you be then?

The PETA approach seems to have worked pretty well with mulesing, even if there has been the odd stumble (Toni Collette being a bit short on integrity). Do you seriously believe that ANYTHING would have been done about mulesing if PETA had not got it out to the world? You boys would have continued the mutilations forever. BTW, can anyone explain to me that it, in the Muslim faith, the animal has to be unmarked (therefore not stunned), and "whole", and not have suffered before slaughter, why these hypocrites buy mulesed sheep in their millions? Then torture them? No-one has ever seemed to be able to clarify all that.

Cheers
Nicky

Nicky
a little secret.

Most these people wouldn’t know a sheep from a cow. Less what mulesing was, let alone detect it.

They are not Australian stockmen and have no idea of the phcyi of Animals.

They are basically scared, terrified of these animals. Which is why they rip their eyes out before slaughter and slash the tendons so othe cow cant kick.
To themselves protect themselves in utter ignorance out of fear.

Now leaving ‘you’ out of this next comment.

I say this. The leadership of Animal Welfare could be better.

Many times pale have asked for assistance to address Muslim people and form Animal Welfare groups to educate these people as to what is going on.

We had the most wonderful people at one of the Mosques down there ready to kick this off in Victoria.

We wrote to them regarding that along with forming young lawyers groups and offering some of our lawyers to give speeches.

I note they did take up the suggestion on the lawyers groups. (Of course without getting back to us.) But that’s ok we expected it.

PETA may have plenty of money which I am sure impresses some.

There is no denying also many of their "volunteers and members have done great work."

Pity their leader has the same strange arrogant nasty disposition because SO MUCH couldhave been done better to unite farmers and Muslims to stand up against the Government

ie Forming Muslim Education groups, ,farmers support groups to back ABA.

Posting on the Muslim forums to educate and form bonds.

Instead you just all bag farmers and Muslims. That ought to help '

Well done.!

*The PETA approach seems to have worked pretty well with mulesing*

The Peta approach means that a huge number of sheep, will die very
cruel and lonely deaths, eaten alive by maggots. But they are too
naive about the topic, to understand the ramifications of their
actions. Good intentions do not mean good outcomes.

Peta have never been out on a 100'000 to 500'000 acre station, to
see what happens or understand what happens in a flywave. With
rising fuel costs, what do you think is going to happen?
People will check their sheep less often, those that are struck
will die and boyo is that cruel. Just checking out one of those
stations can take days, let alone check behind every rock and
tree. Its really sad for the sheep that people like Peta and
yourself, can be so ignorant and stupid.

Gertrude I have always encouraged building more meatworks in
WA and am on record for it. But it won't be done by dreamers
like yourself, that game is too ruthless. I note that T&R
now say that they are getting some facilitation from the WA Govt,
so that is good news.

What I have done is introduce some rational debate about the live
sheep trade, not some of the crapola that is claimed on OLO.
There is a difference between a sheep being sad and a sheep
suffering cruelty. Given that you are overwhelmed by emotions
you see a sad sheep and think it is suffering. Big difference!

I see sad animals every day, on hobby farms, due to neglect,
ignorance, etc. etc. I also see animals suffering, again due
to ignorance and neglect. You girls confuse the two constantly,
they are not the same thing.

I never came onto OLO to debate the live trade. You just went on
and on and on about it, it was time to set the record straight.

Hi all
Yabby, I am prepared to give you credit for the position you have stated earlier on Trisolfen (BTW, what IS the issue with that?); but the reality is that you should not have more a animals than you can properly care for. That is regardless of the size of property you own (if you have that much property fuel costs should not be too much of a burden, nor should proper animal care),

If your sheep get flystrike you are neglecting them. If you cannot or will not care for them properly then don't have them. It is quite simple really. It is a matter of crutching more frequently, but of course, you people won't pay for that.

PALE, I am not "bagging" anyone on the basis of their faith, but I will "bag" anyone, regardless of their faith/culture/ethnic origin if they are cruel to animals, and I have a particular dislike of how some cultures treat women. Muslims just happen to be involved in both. For the record, the Chinese and Koreans (and we send both these countries animals as well) are worse for the former. The people you talk about, your Muslim friends, have come to Australia, and therefore have tacitly accepted certain Australian standards; they should not need "educating". Nor should we have to "persuade" them or provide inducements to them to do what is right.

The NSW Young Lawyers have been involved in animal welfare for years, so that wasn't a novel idea. There is also a new group of young lawyers in Queensland. The Victorian panel of barristers came about in much the same way. I hear that there are some lawyers involved in animal issues in Tasmania as well. Voiceless has Katrina Sharman, who is just excellent.

I don't know about the indigenous communities building ships large enough to ship frozen meat, that sounds like a bit of a leap to me, since shipbuilding in Australia is, to use an unfortunate turn of phrase, almost "dead in the water".

Cheers
Nicky

YAbby said
People will check their sheep less often, those that are struck
will die and boy is that cruel.

Pale comments
All the more reason for the Minister of imagration to allow people willing and able to work into this country and build some AG schools on these stations with Government assistance.

They can teach English at the same time. Also double up for health care for the whole region.

Lets face it the bush needs it and if we are going to increase immigration we best have a plan and a future for some of these people instead of flooding cities.

We need properties broken up in sections with cabins and accommodation and btw there’s nothing wrong with bikes and horses for transport where 4 wheal drives get expensive.

Mind you most people gave gas.

Yabby said

Gertrude I have
…
Pale replies

Well Yabbs, if I came to WA in twelve months time I would like to think you would assist me as much as you have live exports.

No, I am not dreaming, it’s more like a nightmare. I agree it won’t be done personally by me.

You well know that no one person could do this alone. It requires some big bucks tossed into it from purchases of the products.

It also requires someone smart enough to give free shares in certain areas to fully involve farmers.

That is how you ensure a succefful outcome by fully involving people and rewarding them for their efforts

I agree the meat game is without doubt the most ruthless there is. Why do you think I have other players involved?

HKM team consists of abattoir owners, Muslims leaders and lawyers. Two of those lawyers have a background in meat plants.

In case you hadn’t noticed that’s a pretty ruthless team of players also.

Ruthless is the area I most comfortable in. I am used to it. Clearly I have a concern for fair play to animals so decided to put it to good use.

I could tell you how these investigations started, but I won’t bother.