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The Forum > General Discussion > A joint initiative of MLA and LiveCorp, to 'defy 'RSPCA using our youth. Shame

A joint initiative of MLA and LiveCorp, to 'defy 'RSPCA using our youth. Shame

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Nicky

I don’t recall asking you to drop your life and move in with AFIC.

I post on here as you do to give my opinion on what will improve animal welfare.
Not to mention the welfare of this country shipping out our most valuable material
You are of course free to disagree however the bottom line is the bottom line.
I have always said it comes down to changes within the industry and to do that we need some new big players.

You are correct by saying this is something that needs a multi faceted approach Nicky and that’s the problem because it’s all tackled by the PETA approach. In Australia it will back fire badly.

The Australian public are the 'last' people this industry and Government is concerned about. Its internationally driven.

I have always agreed with one thing Yabby has said and that is the Animal Welfare groups need advisors that understand the meat industry and not just in Australia.

The meat industry is not driven by Australia and in fact we have little control

As far as there not being more take up with our views Nicky I can only say as you said –

This is something that needs a multi-faceted approach, and ours does have merit and no it is certainly not the only one.

However it is the ONLY one to be black listed by PETA and Animals Australia AL etc.

The bottom line Nicky is that’s pretty arrogant of them and rather curious.

I am not having a personal shot at you just simply telling it like it is.

To refuse invitations to meet with Muslim Leaders with ourselves in Australia and Asia, tells me there is a lot more behind this.

If they had the slightest clue what’s going on in the meat industry you would understand. Regardless I am not trying to tell you what to do.
My posts are simply comments – like yours.
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Sunday, 20 April 2008 12:46:30 AM
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Nicky, "We, in fact, are pretty self sufficient with regard to food, most of what we eat we grow" - Come again? who grows it if it's not farmers? Who are you kidding, surely not just yourself. The scary thing is not even realising how dependant we are on farmers.

The dole as you call it is around $10000pa, or $240m a year - during exceptional drought years. I don't know how many hoops you think farmers have to go through, but enduring drought for a number of years and not making money is a fairly high one. Unlike some recipients of welfare, I doubt this minority of farmers deliberatly are in it to rip the taxpayers of Australia off, they just need a little help. If they don't have money they can't spend it in their communities and 1000s more suffer, its not just about supporting farmers. And lets put the 24000 into perspective alongside the existing 2 million people who mainly rely on welfare income

The baby bonus is somewhere over $1 billion per year, and the first home buyers scheme is a $1 billion a year, neither means tested. The Australian govts spend billions on sport, sport contributes about 1.8 % of GDP. What is more important , food or a game of footy?

I don't doubt that this minority of farmers will have long term viability concerns, and I don't support a handout approach, but I won't criticise those in need of help accepting help. What we have to accept is that it is a small minority of farmers and not wrongly paint it as a majority.

Continuing the assumptions, if only about 12.5% of farmers are claiming assistance then isn't it fair to say that the other 87.5% might be the ones with the SUVs.
It's not my fault you don't drive a more expensive car, and you're probably better off not. Sadly farmers don't have bitumen to their backdooor and 4 wheel drive is a necessity for many of them.

cont'd
Posted by rojo, Sunday, 20 April 2008 2:53:26 AM
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"So one guy is doing all right - either he is smarter than the rest of you, or you are crying poor with little justification"
He's one of many in my area, and I have another decade or so to catch up to his current age and achievment level. As we have discussed it is a minority "crying poor", the majority having no such justification. Not saying however that any farmer is happy about declining terms of trade, or losing market access.

re erosion: I hate to be the one to tell you this but not all farmers have livestock, and only a few of the ones that do are in marginal lands. You can't have a population of 20 million people and not have an impact on the environment, whether it be concrete jungles, roads or erosion. I guess we'll just have to export all our food to China, given your projected backlash. They know what it's like to starve.
Posted by rojo, Sunday, 20 April 2008 2:55:41 AM
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*however, politicians completely disregard the opinions of anyone who does not support what farmers
do.*

Policiticians have to be realists Nicky, or they won't last long.
Certainly not amongst the major parties. Those in smaller parties
can say what they like, they don't even have to think through the
consequences of their actions. A small minority will vote for them,
based on the feelgood factor.

Fact is that politicians realise that your ideal world is a fantasy,
little more. The world is growing in population by 80 million a
year and people want food. By far the majority also want to keep
eating meat. The whole vegan story is very quaint, but very much
out of touch with our real world. Believe me, somebody will farm
that land as population increases, if its not farmers, it will
be corporations. I note that Maquarie are starting to make investments.

The notion that farmers should not make a profit for their labour,
is dreaming. When you girls work, you want a decent wage for your
labour. Why not farmers? I doubt if you would work for 4$ an hour.
Well don't apply two standards.

I have a simple solution. I benchmark. The farmgate price of our products
in a global sense, is highly competitive. Our problem is the next step,
from the farmgate to the wharf. Suburban Australia seems unable to
do this efficiently. They have one answer, pay farmers less. Well sorry,
farming is a business, bills have to be paid. We think globally, not locally.

Milk is a classic situation in WA. Prices have been well under the rest of
the Australian average, as processors admitted to being inefficient. So half
the herd was sold off and growers closed their doors. Now they are screaming
for milk and more dairy farmers. It is bleeding ridiculous!

Meat is the same. We grow and produce meat. Suburbia should be able to
process it and market it, in some efficient manner. Based on the benchmarks
they clearly cannot. Well farmers are not about to go broke to suit your agenda
Nicky.
Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 20 April 2008 2:37:48 PM
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Nicky, with the kind of stuff going on, you really have to question
as to why anyone should take your lot seriously.

Now our dear Dickie claims some kind of intelligence and a hate
for the word "googling", despite the fact that I gather that some
dictionaries are now accepting it as a new term, as google has taken
over the search engine business.

I seldom bother with Dickie's googles, but last time I checked out
a couple, which she posted as credible evidence for her claims.

One was about 10 lines from the Mirror, where they got their stats
wrong by a factor of 10.

The other was about a clothing chain with 200 stores, who had never
sold Australian wool, but after a visit from the Peta mob, declared
that they would not sell Australian wool. How frigging stupid do
you think that people have to be, to not notice the major propaganda
going on here?

If this sort of crapola is considered as real evidence, why should
anyone take you lot seriously?
Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 20 April 2008 3:12:14 PM
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Dear Pelican, Nicky, Pale

I have signed the following petition as have many Australians. Please, I urge you to do likewise.

The charge is against an artist in Honduras where the artist tied a street dog up in a gallery and allowed it to starve to death, simply to obtain accolades for his piece of "art."

This is not disimilar to the animals on Australia's institutionalised ships of death, where these hapless animals are also incarcerated and die from inanition, resulting from stress and exhaustion, before being dumped overboard.

Perhaps we should advise the petitioner that this "developed" nation has now legalised the abuse and torment of its animals?

The petition has nearly half million signatures and I note it has grown by more than 100,000 in less than a day.

Please pass this on to all friends and acquaintances.

Thank you.

http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/
Posted by dickie, Sunday, 20 April 2008 11:30:57 PM
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