Nicky said

Feedlots are a total abomination

pale replies
please post your opinion what you think we should be doing to change these conditions for animals ?

There is a website called RSPCA Watchdog (or something similar).
pale relies= Here =
http://www.rspcawatchdog.org/home.htm

RSPCA support barn because its better than caged.RSPCA have no laws or powers
http://www.rspcaqld.org.au/campaigns/batteryhens/
http://www.rspcaqld.org.au/campaigns/batteryhens/humanealternatives.htm

Re the horses
real problem lack of laws- Unless its down they cant step in- other than demand a vet and water and food provided.

Nicky said
PF, you are so right.

pale comments

IS THAT IT?```````````

You are so close to the answer Nicky.
You say your not a AA AL PETA person and I dont mean to be rude but honestly I think you are.

No I dont mean you work there or anything like that I just mean your conditioned by the way you think and respond and do and write.

Tell me Nicky dont you get really upset when you see the chooks and pigs in intensive farms and the horses lying there= I do

Hasnt it occured to you that at least with supporting more free range farmers to enable them to expand it is helping the animals.

How can you people just sit there refusing to help and stopping us every possible step of the way Nicky.

It doesnt matter to me if you are or are not a member your tarred with the same brush.

You have never contacted us but you fully aware we require people in each state to make opening more free range farms.

Thats of course your choice. As you said to me a while back= I am not like you I dont have my foot in both camps.

No Nicky your not like us. We would have our feet face and heart in all camps and work with the devil himself to "practically" help animals.
(In fact I am sure I have.}

Yet you come on here and bag people like RSPCA and pale in many cases when we are hands on doing our best.

Yabby
Gawd, best be careful Yabbs. Sounds like you’d never know what’s lurking around ah. Yo, any jobs going :) = Cool pre stun idea but wouldn’t do it for Halal:)

Time has come. Thanks, Yabby~sincerely~ for all your time and insults and humor over the past however long.
Its one thing to try and fail , its something else if you’re blocked at each corner.


There will be keen eyes watching for possibilities to sue. That’s ok Sue if you wish somebody has to stand up and say it. =

This whole Animal Welfare issue involving many problems has now become major political problem. It would be only fair to say that Animals Australia have done a great deal of work. Yes that would be a fair comment.
But still where on earth are we going with it. They say they are fighting for justice. Justice or fairness is the last thing they have delivered if we are to include people.

It has been one of the most difficult descions of my life and other animal lovers around me to decide what to do about Animals Australia and their extraordinary attitude towards fellow animal lovers. Sure I know pale will be hated – but we are already .

However have come to this conclusion that we must speak out and at least try to turn this around in 2008 for the animals and all those fantastic people who work so quitlety from their own homes or call it a day.

N“obody has the right to be the peak head of anything if fanataticism or personal interests or preferences denies the rest of the public to be treated fairly.

If you can’t treat people fairly and with respect then you won’t help animals.To us this is about the animals and only the animals who deserve better.

After years of trying to work with Animals Australia and years of the obtuse attitude towards us we finally asked the enemy number one if you like the Federal Government to show some sort of leadership to make it a fair for everybody.

TBC

PALE - I have said before that I do not agree that your way is the way, and also that I am not prepared to involve myself in any slaughtering operations. That is not negotiable, because I do not believe that your strategy will make any difference since these people already import such massive volumes of frozen meat.

I do not need to be a member of any organization to recognize that by encouraging growth with farmers you are encouraging more breeding for slaughter, and that slaughter is brutal and I want no part of it.

You said on the other thread that you had operating (and/or were about to):

"Five in Melbourne, three new arrangements in QLD for exports two soon in NSW". Under what name do they operate?

Are these animals stunned prior to slaughter?

As for the RSPCA, as I have also said before, the reason why other groups think they are as useless as the proverbial is that they do not push for changes in legislation that would ban intensive farming. Nor do they police intensive farms (other than Queensland's arrangements) because there is usually a conflict of interest with the industry and/or the government.

They avoid prosecutions because they cost, despite the fact that every state branch is sitting on a fortune - most of it invested rather than being spent on the animals a gullible public gives them money to protect. If they are driven to prosecute, they use police prosecutors who usually don't give a damn because they're cheap (and if you pay peanuts you get monkeys).

Since they claim to be able to influence governments, that's what they should be doing (instead of spending money on expensive advertising to rake in more money to invest). That's what other groups such as Voiceless and Animals Australia do, and they do it very well. Promoting slaughter and encouraging more farming of animals for slaughter is not the way.

Nicky

Nicky
Thank You. However you are missing the point. I would put it to you that you have in fact worked under their guidance and also PETA for a considerable amount of time.

Didn’t I see an article going way back from a PETA person and yourself?

Of course the counter argument to that would have to be we do not agree with you.
There in lies the point. The point is as I said if we take Animal welfare out of this argument what we have left is a peak organization refusing to work with main streams because of personal or preferred views,- no matter how well intended.

Nicky said

Are these animals stunned prior to slaughter?

pale relies= Yes and you know what Nicky they are at least slaughtered here and sent chilled carcass which you have all ~claimed you support. That’s diverting live to carcass.

Nicky Said
Are these animals stunned prior to slaughter?

Pale replies
How dare you even insult us to ask that? Who was it that requested AA and Useless to sit at the table to discuss the first gas plant to make slaughter more humane? That was a world first and described by the humane society as a huge step forward in animal welfare and blessed by Bridgett Bardott. But you knew that already Nicky of course. This is the obtuse attitude I was referring to above.

BTW was put to forth by the Muslim Leaders themselves ASKING everybody to work with them and RSPCA QLD and us.
Speaking of Muslim leaders just a few posts up you were invited also by pale to meet with them and the head Rabi to discuss Halal and Kosher slaughter Nicky but of course you couldn’t be involved. - Could you.?

You were ALL invited to assist free range farmers expand free range so the animals at least had a better life.

Oh Sorry I forgot- that’s not the aim is it? They wouldn’t even help with the Halal Veggie Farms?
RSPCA at least house feed vet and inspect.

Where’s the others going.

PALE, you really have to understand that you cannot force the world at large to agree with - or for that matter disagree with Animals Australia. The fact is that I do not think your way will make any difference, since there are tens of thousands of tonnes of meat already being exported there already. I won't dignify the remark about a media story about me with PETA representatives, because you must be dreaming, since you don't know me and you don't know any PETA people, since they also declined your project notions.

I suggest you go on doing things your way (but pleading for anyone and everyone to help, whether they are in sympathy with you or not (if it's so good why AREN'T they queueing up to help?) and let the rest of the world (seemingly) do it their way.

Animal welfare is going to reach a flashpoint soon anyway, following the story in the Age about 4,000 sheep a week being slaughtered without stunning in Victoria. Tony Burke will find himself under seige. I can't imagine how we could have finished up with someone worse than McGauran, but they say that the people get the government they deserve.

Nicky

*Tony Burke will find himself under seige. I can't imagine how we could have finished up with someone worse than McGauran,*

Nicky, hang on, give Tony Burke his due so far. I was nervous about
having an ag minister with no knowledge of agriculture, but so
far so good. He's on a huge learning curve and going to great trouble
to inform himself directly. He's the first ag minister that I can
remember, who has come to WA and checked things out personally,
including the live export feedlots. Perhaps Rudd's judgement was
correct after all.

Burke is minister for ag after all and he's certainly out there
talking to farmers, which is a great start.

Gertrude, I heard a news report on the radio, about a brown snake
entering a chicken joint on the Gold Coast and some customers
climbing up on the counters to escape. For some reason I wondered
if it was perhaps you :)