Er Nicky this site is familer-

Member Societies // Animals Australia
Animal Activism QLD. PO Box 703 Stones Corner QLD 4120 Contact: Debra Morris Web: http://www.animalactivism.org Email:. +. Animal Liberation QLD. PO Box 463
www.animalsaustralia.org/about/member_societies.php - 32k - Cached - Similar pages

RSPCA QLD CEO explained patiently what they can and can’t use as evidence in court.

RSPCA `can not` use evidence gained illegally- i.e. break and enter tress pass.

She had other ideas. Her partners “studying law” and knew better than RSPCA Lawyers. Assitance was offered.

Three occasions she failed to show. Not even a courtesy call.

A few weeks after =
http://www.animalactivism.org/campaigns/rspca-cruelty/

Reads as follows>

RSPCA Endorses Cruelty
A year long investigation into battery egg farms by animal activists has exposed routine cruelty in farms owned by organizations accredited by the RSPCA. Bla bla.
(As Hugh Wirth said= you can’t reason with these people.)

Cuphandle Said
I have seen criticism for and against the RSPCA and would like to make the following observations:
In my opinion the RSPCA loves to get involved in media publicized issues that will bring in extra gifts and donations to boost their organizations funds, eg: a recent case in Qld where they raided a property and confiscated approximately 80 dogs (in very poor condition!).....splashed all over the local TV Channels for the next couple of days!

Pale replies

Enough is enough.

How nasty and how typical. I would have thought most Animal Lovers would have been delighted that Mark took that on right in our worst season. BTW it wasn’t 80 dogs it was 100.

Would you have preferred him to do leave them there! How dare you criticize Mark. I will remind you that RSPCA have to provide funds for these animals out of their own budget.

Every NFP organization needs all the help they can get especially from media.

Unlike Animals Australia they are "hands on" attending thousands of call outs and even more phone calls.

RSPCA QLD are leading the way in Animal Welfare.
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:fyFoofwRtZ4J:www.rspcaqld.org.au/aboutus/RSPCA-Qld-Annual-Report-06-07.pdf+rspca+qld+attend+thousands+of+complaints&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=a

Yabby, I cannot tell you how pleased to have touched that heart of yours, and that you will sleep better for the benefit of my opinion. There is obviously a world of difference between "animal welfare" and "animal liberation". I prefer the term "animal advocate" as you may have noticed. There doesn't seem to be to be anything especially extreme about Animals Australia's website, and they do not appear to be trying to put all farmers out of business. They are firm about live exports and intensive farming and I fully support that. They make no comment that I can find about ruining farmers' livelihoods.

The protest on November 10 that I went to had probably 140 or so people around. Because it was at a central location, there were large numbers of tourists from around Australia (and overseas) there. I got 120 signatures on the petition, by myself, in the first hour, and about 15 of us were doing that so I imagine the others would have done equally well if not better.

I have the ongoing debate with myself about pets too, and it bothers me that I am inconsistent on this, but I am not perfect and I console myself with the reflection that one of my dogs would have been drowned had she not come home with me and the other had already been abandoned at the RSPCA. As I've said before, I live with concerns about the their breeds (border collie/kelpie/cattle dog)and what their preferred lifestyle might have been. But as far as I can tell they are happy and healthy. And humans have well and truly domesticated the dog to the extent that it would no longer survive in the wild. My hens are "spent" hens from a battery farm who are living the remainder of their lives in peace.

Believe it or not, I do not force a vegetarian agenda on anyone, including friends, colleagues and family. I think that that would alientate them from my beliefs, and eventually, as they become more aware they will make their own choices.

Cheers
Nicky

Nicky, frankly your milder version of despising me, is a huge improvement on
Dickie, whose anger and hatred dribbled off the OLO pages, day after day.
I’d have to suggest a cup of tea and a lie down, to calm her down a bit :)

*There is obviously a world of difference between "animal
welfare" and "animal liberation". I prefer the term "animal advocate"*

There certainly is, but it dodges the question of which camp you are in.
Perhaps that was your intention in the first place.

Ok, so the November 10 national protest seems to have been a dud.
20 million people in Australia and maybe 1000 turned up across
the country?

*humans have well and truly domesticated the dog to the extent that it would no longer survive in
the wild*

Do not kid yourself, your dogs would thrive without you. Their wolf ancestry
is closer then you think, as I keep finding out when down dogs escape and land
up out here. They are lovely creatures, but they still know how to hunt, for fun
or for food. Many a townie has problems accepting that their moggie can easily
turn into a killer of livestock, its in their genes.

I looked at the AA website some months ago and recall seeing a similar banner
to your claims, ie about what animals are “meant” to be on earth for. That
is about ideology, not welfare. Mind you, I tried to find that banner today
and could not. Perhaps it has been removed. I have yet to be convinced that
the AA people are driven by purely welfare concerns and that ideology does
not come into it.

Singer seems to be a bit more thoughtful about all this. Patrick Francis reviewed
his last book and invited him to his farm to have a look. Singer clearly doesn’t
know much about Australian livestock production or about how ruminants are
focussed on what those billions of rumen bacteria are telling them, to be content
with the world.

At least he concedes that its ethical to eat livestock that have had happy-lives.

Ladies

Has it ever occurred to you that the system is working `rather well` “for the Government” because you all blame the RSPCA for not doing their job.
In the last few months I have posted a copy of the Senate Enquiry into Abattoirs and other hints.
I thought if we got off the old argument libbers peta verses pale RSPCA attitudes we might be able to achieve results regardless.

In case you haven’t noticed we are on the side of the animals too.
I understand your feelings towards RSPCA regarding intensive farms and live exports.

I outlined some questions and points of interest be answered regarding RSPCA Structure. Here they are again.

Interested parties should look at the actual `structure` of RSPCA National Office.

A. Who are these people answerable to if anybody?

B If Federal Government and State Government funds are `paid to National RSPCA head office for `employment of CEOs or Inspectors can they `truly` say RSPCA are not Government funded?

C. Given the farming industry runs into billions, does that then, put Government in a position of conflict of interest, or even RSPCA National itself?

D How could we improve...

IMOP the structure of RSPCA from the beginning was “set up in a way to protect those who are meant to uphold the laws.”= The Governments

It takes all the reasonability off of them. If there is a media beef up about Animal cruelty is it intensive farms or live exports they enjoy being distant from it allowing RSPCA to take the heat.

My point is if it is the case RSPCA were established or eventually were used as a double edge sword by Governments isn’t it possible people are playing right into their hands.

Why don’t you look at the special ministers roles (Closely)

There are some very dedicated people working within RSPCA.

I am just wondering if you don’t think Animals might be served by supporting RSPCA and giving them the support the really need to stand up to Government.

Attack the Government direct and don’t give them the RSPCA to hide behind anymore.

Dear Yabby, you don't know my dogs!

PALE, I'm familiar with the work of AAQ, and also with that particular investigation. The problem is that the RSPCA gives these operations advance warning of an inspection, giving them plenty of time to "clean up their act" - so when the inspectors arrive, there are "no animal welfare breaches". THAT is why everyone gets so frustrated with them. It goes back to the age-old dichotomy of the legislation and the Codes of Practice. Compliance with these pitiful documents can form the basis of a defence against cruelty charges and noncompliance can form the basis of a prosecution.

The problem with getting Codes of Practice incorporated into legislation or regulation is if the CoP is improved, then you have to wait for a review of the legislation to reflect that. Then you have the judiciary, and I think it's fair to say that in every jurisdiction, the penalties handed down are pitiful. Remember the nutter charged with bestiality and mutilating heaps of rabbits in Sydney? The drugs made him do it - and it was determined that he had a mental illness, when in fact using methamphetamine is a lifestyle choice not a mental illness at all.

But the RSPCA (and I have to say - whose budget should rescuing those dogs have come from? That's why people and governments throw money at them and why they are all sitting on absolute fortunes) has chosen to align itself with battery egg producers, and turn a blind eye to the plight of pigs and live export animals. So they DON'T go to these places and catch them in the act, they avoid that, possibly deliberately. I'm the first to agree that Queensland RSPCA shows the rest of the losers how it should be done though.

Yabby - ideologies and practical welfare measures clearly are worlds apart. Many of us are realistic enough to know that the world is not going to become vegetarian overnight. Abject cruelty is a different matter though, as Animals Australia points out.

Cheers
Nicky

*you don't know my dogs!*

Nicky, you are not the first motherly type, to claim the innocence of her babies.
Oxytocin seems to have that effect.

Unless your dogs are very old, I’d wager quite a large sum of money on the fact
that if they spent a few minutes with my dogs, learning about the joys of chasing
rabbits, you’d be shocked at your babies ability to scrunch them up for joy or
food. They could easily survive without you, but motherly types sometimes have
trouble with that, as they enjoy being needed.

*Many of us are realistic
enough to know that the world is not going to become vegetarian overnight.*

Many of you are however not realistic enough to accept that this may never
happen! Only in your dreams maybe.

The question then arises, about the definitions of a fanatic. I have known
tax inspectors, worksafe inspectors, etc, who think that the whole world
should revolve around their particular point of interest. As if we should not
lead balanced lives and have lots of things on our plates. All that is forgotten
by fanatics.

The RSPCA might have its faults, but they get thousands of calls a year, deal
with thousands of cases and certainly do a lot for animal welfare. The public
certainly accepts their role as looking after animal welfare, wether you like it or
not.

Clearly that is not good enough for you, as the Queen Mary it seems, is not
good enough to transport live sheep either. Now tell me why I should not
think of you as a fanatic on this issue?