Good evening folks
I've been away for a bit so have just caught up with this one. Nice to see the same faces contributing. I remember the ABC program "A Blind Eye" - it covered the RSPCA's relationship with Pace Farms (the largest battery hen operator in NSW which has some hens in barns), its relationship with pig farmers in South Australia and alleged corruption of the election process to the state council there, and also its involvement with live exporters in Western Australia. It was rumoured in Western Australia that two members of the state council there were farmers who sent animals on live exports (one of whom was reported to have a conviction for animal cruelty), against RSPCA national policy and that the president and CEO allegedly neglected to properly inform the state council about a complaint that was being laid by Animals Australia. I think I've got that right. If I remember rightly the national president, Hugh Wirth, basically said that there was nothing he could do to bring state branches into line.

I have noticed that this thread has been "converted" to issues relating to "Animal Welfare" and the increasing and very competitive "trumpeting" of individual achievements and apparent enmity between competing groups and individuals themselves!

I have seen criticism for and against the RSPCA and would like to make the following observations:
In my opinion the RSPCA loves to get involved in media publicised issues that will bring in extra gifts and donations to boost their organisations funds, eg: a recent case in Qld where thay raided a property and confiscated approximately 80 dogs (in very poor condition!).....splashed all over the local TV Channels for the next couple of days!

Some time ago my wife mentioned to the local Policeman (a new and potential achiever) about the woeful conditions affecting a neighbours horses and the fact that due to exceptionally poor condition the mares were simply dying whilst trying to foal! (This had been going on for some years and was gradually getting worse!)
She mentioned that she had heard from local people that over the years numerous complaints had been made to the RSPCA, with little response, so she wondered what could be done about it?
The Policeman rang the closest RSPCA inspector and asked him to come out and look at the situation. They then both drove around the offending property (which was a couple of thousand acres) and took note of the conditions of the animals, then the RSPCA Inspector asked us if WE could get some feed to entice some of the horses into the stockyards so that he could take some photos. This we declined as we were battling to feed our own stock and besides we thought that this was a responsibility that should have been carried out by the RSPCA (if they were that interested!)
End result: no action taken by RSPCA, the Policeman allegedly severely reprimanded by his superior and transferred to another area!
Score: Cruel Bastards....10! RSPCA......Nil!

We can’t dismiss farmers... We all must work united.

Having pale black listed because some don’t want to see animals killed is counter productive to animals.

IMOP its time for new leadership. Mark Pearson perhaps, Dawn, Trish Brown, Lyn or others capable. Include some good farmers “as a matter of urgency.”

There’s a twenty year record of inta fighting. Hugh Wirth adressed that as major problem.

Pale shares those concerns. Speaking of RSPCA -

Interested parties should look at the actual `structure` of RSPCA National Office.

A. Who are these people answerable to if anybody?

B If Federal Government and State Government funds are `paid to National RSPCA head office for `employment of CEOs or Inspectors can they `truly` say RSPCA are not Government funded?

C. Given the farming industry runs into billions, does that then, put Government in a position of conflict of interest, or even RSPCA National itself?

D How could we improve...

Nicky pale “supports” AA. We expect likewise.

QLD is blessed with a forward thinking RSPCACEO but even he can’t act outside the law.

BTW your information is incorrect. Pale have been informed that AA “instructed” others not to speak with or work with or have any contact with pale.

AA is the peak Animal Welfare Umbrella according to them so naturally people listen.


Now there can only be a few reasons for that I would suggest=

1 We work with RSPCA QLD

2 Our project HKM to reopen abattoirs to phase out the live trade.

3 Both combined

4 fear of loosing control

Moving on -

Why didn’t AA, PETA, WSPA, Voiceless accept invitations to work with paleRSPCA QLD under our MOU meet Muslim Leaders - supporting Free range Farms and reopening abattoirs.

If they `are` campaigning to replace live with carcass this would be a shot in the arm for that champagne surely.

Why don’t you get Ingrid to come on OLO or Glensye to debate these them?
Perhaps their lawyers might like to debate it with us.

FYI RSPCA and RSPCA QLD especially have some fantastic people who are very dedicated

Nicky, the ideology behind your vegetarianism, I can only judge by what you
have written so far, which is what I do.

Clearly its you doing the generalising, lumping all livestock farming into one pot.

I beg to differ, there is a huge difference between factory farming and say grazing,
But all the animal libber websites that I have checked out throw it into that same
pot, the claim is that “meat it costs the earth” They follow your ideology, of
what animals are meant or not meant to be doing. Its their religion or philosophy
and they preach it.

One species eating another, is as natural as nature herself and goes back as
far as you’d like to go. Its part of Darwinian evolution theory and part of our
genetic heritage.

Eating meat is also quite sustainable, the real problem is the exploding human
population in the last 100 years, based on cheap oil. Factory farming has come
about due to that exploding human population and their demand for food.
Perhaps you should start addressing the problem, rather then blame those
species doing nothing that isn’t natural, like eating grass for a living.

I remind you that the pastures on which livestock are grazing, are all absorbing
CO2 and releasing oxygen, all very healthy for the planet. Now you are telling
me that this natural event is in fact evil! Think again.

As to grain, there is in fact no shortage. US and EU Govts have spent billions
a year subsiding and limiting production, as global markets have been swamped
with grain for decades. The third world is free to buy that grain, farmers can’t
grow it for free. Or taxpayers like you could buy it and send it to the third world.

Finally the West is however starting to realise, that the more boatloads of food that
they send to the third world, the more babies are popped out, in an ever growing
spiral of humans. 80 million a year are added to the planet in the third world,
not the first world. That’s your real problem.

Yabby, I absolutely agree with you about the population explosion - I think than rather than sending massive amounts in aid in the form of money and food, the investment should be in birth control programs. I can't see the relationship between the population explosion and cheap oil, I'm afraid. Nor do I think I "lump" all livestock producers into the one level of cruelty - I despise intensive farmers infinitely more than I do free range ones.

PALE, I don't think any animal welfare advocacy organization would want to have anyone who has a commercial interest (i.e. farmers, vivisectionists) in animals in any position to do with ethics/animal welfare. By their very nature (see Penny's posting about "A Blind Eye") there is a profit motive by which they are influenced. That is the problem with any number of ethics committees. And I certainly would not regard anything said by Hugh Wirthless to be relevant to any debate. The man is an idiot, and has contributed to more of the shame than that to which the RSPCA already exposes itself.

If you want to go about getting the people you mention to launch some sort of coup within Animals Australia (are they members?), then why don't you? It sounds to me like your complaint is more about Glenys Oogjes than Animals Australia itself though. You still haven't clarified exactly what it is they object to about PALE - unless it sees that with the HKM association a profit motive involved (i.e. - PALE will get money from HKM for all this slaughtering, and that would definitely be an ethical issue for them). You say you support AA and "expect the same" - clearly you don't support AA, from what you say on these threads, you are highly critical of all they stand for. And conversely, clearly they do not support you, according to your posts.

AA will continue to be the real driving force behind animal welfare as long as the RSPCA remains as corrupt as it is (with the possible exception of some of your Queensland people).

Cheers
Nicky

*I despise intensive
farmers infinitely more than I do free range ones.*

Nicky, I cannot but be touched by the fact that you despise me less then some
other farmers. I will sleep much better now :)

As to your ideology and that of the so called animal welfare groups whose websites
I have checked out, it seems to me that just about all of you are driven by the
ideology of animal liberation, as distinct from animal welfare. There is
a big difference.

That is exactly why your views in society are seen as extremist. Yet a whole
bunch of you have pets, who have far less freedom to live natural lives then
my farm animals do. I see a huge contradiction there. I also see a problem
with animal liberation organisations being able to be somehow objective
about what farmers do, given that they despise what farmers do in the first
place.

I see that on November 10th you had your national day of protest against
the live trade. How many people turned up as a matter of interest?

As to oil and food, I thought that would be pretty obvious. All that cheap
oil meant mass mechanisation of agriculture, which led to mountains of
cheap food around the globe, often given away to the third world to get
rid of it, by the US and EU. They also gave them mountains of vaccines
etc, but forgot the family planning bit, or rather ignored it due to religious
interference by the Catholic Church and others.

Now that oil is no longer cheap, costs of growing it are skyrocketing
and farmers aren’t going to grow it at a loss for too long. Factory farming
is based on cheap oil etc, where as natural farming such as grazing, is
not. As the price of oil rises, factory farming will become less and less
sustainable compared to natural farming.