"just what exactly could she have done? Staged a riot and got arrested (she has been)? Released all the pigs, with the same result? "

Certainly not this person. Someone who can take photos of suffering animals and give (or sell for all we know) to organisations on the provision that they are only to be used to promote vegetarianism, is someone that does not truely care for animals in my book. She deserves to be arrested for what she does (illegal raids)

Why does she refuse to allow her photos to be used to try and improve conditions for intensively farmed pigs? Because she couldnt give a rats behind about that poor sow she photographed behind those bars - she is just a means to an end (in her eyes)

Her photos are only for vegie sites - she makes that very clear.
I dont know how she sleeps at night - she is no better than the spin doctors at APL.

Hi Nicky


Regardless *whom doesn’t like it RSPCA are in charge. Until everybody works together nothing will change. You all complained about Wirthless. Yes, he left the top job and quietly.
Ever wondered why.-Ah forget it! Hugh said until groups work together nothing will change. .He “insisted” (quote) you can’t talk or reason with these people, because they ‘think they walk on a higher moral ground.

You accuse pale of trying to ‘force` people to work with us reopening plants. That’s untrue... Why would we have to *force anybody who *claims they are *campaigning to replace live with chilled?
You’d think everybody would be tripping over themselves to help. It doesn’t make sense.. Unless of course the peak groups were vegetarians- but that would mean they don’t really support chilled carcass at all. Wouldn’t it?
That leaves 98% of main stream public without representation.
There is a lot I haven’t disclosed.- Threats from AA lawyer simply because we copied something Yabby said. Interesting they didn’t take Yabby on just us`.
What’s the plan Nicky? To keep showing footage and post peta sites.?

You say there must be reason why pale was black listed. Yup there sure is. Would you like me to post it “in writing”? It `won’t` help the Animals.

RSPCA QLD don’t have a problem working with us nor Aboriginal Councils or Muslim Leaders and many others.

Bridgett Bardott fully supports HKM also.

.Interesting that it’s only `your people ` who are anti.
You keep raising this. We respond.

Nicky said
. Senator Bartlett must have chosen to work with AA for his own reasons and that is his choice.
Pale replies.
Umm, I couldn’t agree more.

Senators have a duty to serve `all` of the public Nicky – in `particular` their *local electrade.
. Andrew attended a meeting and was delighted along with RSPCA QLD and Muslim Leaders of Australia.

However pale members felt extremely let down that his web Master said he `personally instructed her to *remove the pale petition after the co joint farmers meat venture was submitted by AFIC HKM PALE RSPCA QLD

I can't imagine why an organisation that consistently presents itself with the degree of professionalism and rationality that PALEIF does, hasn't attracted universal support from other animal rights organisations.

Hi all
Yabby, and Rojo, To me, vegetarianisn is not what you describe - but you are possibly quite right in what you say about religion; people have their own connotations. But consider this - the amount of grain used to feed farm animals so that people can eat them would feed much of the third world. Then there is the "carbon footprint", but you don't want to know about that. I don't think I have condemned humane farming, because I am more of a realist than to imagine the world becoming vegetarian overnight. What I deplore is cruelty.

PALE, I repeat once again, I am aligned with no-one. Clearly there is a philosphical dissonance between PALE and other groups (who incidentally seem to be able to work with Animals Australia). Perhaps to end this once and for all, you should tell your story here. I don't know why Andrew Bartlett chose to do what he did other than it may have been from the perspective of AA being the peak body which represents other groups as well. Senators in fact are not responsible to "electorates" as such, they are elected by State but I don't know that that is relevant to this debate.

The RSPCA is in the position it is by default (not "in charge", as you put it). State governments know that the RSPCA is not going to cause them any embarassment, and effectively condones appalling practices with farm animals, and that's why they have "power to act" under POCTA legislation. And what action they take they usually do very badly (with the possible exception of some of the Queensland inspectors). It's certainly not because they make any meaningful contribution to animal welfare or they are good at what they do (unless it's a cat or a dog). As for Wirthless, and McGauran, the less said about that paid the better, I think. Wirthless set animal welfare back in this country decades.

Cheers
Nicky

Morgan
Well let us explain it as much as as we understand the background ourselves.

You of course would be aware of RSPCA. We work with RSPCA QLD Branch in their efforts to faze out the live trade and relace it with chilled meats only.

In the couple of years or so you may not have seen the Four Corners Story A Blind Eye. RSPCA were accused of turning their backs on animal cruelty regarding the live trade.

This was followed up a few months letter by a five page spread in the Australian newspaper.

There were many alligations coming from another group that they were concerned RSPCA were turning a blind eye.

At first glance you would wonder why these animals had nobody to protect them and their was much anger directed at the RSPCA.

I am informed this fude has being going on for many years before pale came along.

Pale commenced in about 2002 or 2003. We were all told before we started that there would be people who would not like us helping RSPCA QLD especially by reopening abattoirs.

We soon learned that was true.

One of the first things we did as a organisation knowing something of the inta fighting between RSPCA and other groups was contact Peter Singer to seek assistance working together with Muslim Leaders and ourselves.

I am afraid the members became very upset by his repsonse- if you could call it that.( Another time)

I think it is important that the public understad RSPCA have a MOU with State Governments and DPI officers to inspect animals going to the live trade.
This in fact has caused a great deal of mistrust and suspicion and rightfully so.



pale decided to invite Muslim Leaders to become involved in Animal Welfare and ask for their asistance to reopen more Halal Plants Here.
This has met with strong opposition from some veggie groups groups.

We have stuck by RSPCA walts and all because we believe it is the only way to help animals by making them stronger.

That also upset some people.
Goodnight

And finally to PF
PF, to the very best of my knowledge (unless you know differently) this woman is not paid for the work she does, and she certainly does not sell it. I think her expenses may be covered.

On the occasions complaints have been made on the basis of her work, nothing has happened, because the RSPCA sits on its hands. It deliberately gives these places (battery farms too) notice of an inspection, by which time they have cleaned up their act. The RSPCA claims then that it cannot use her material because it was "illegally obtained". You are also a little self-contradictory in deploring the conditions in which the animals she films are living, and saying that she should be more active in doing something about it, but suggesting she should be arrested for getting the evidence of it out there. She is worlds apart from APL and the paranoid delusions expressed on their website.

You might be interested to read some speeches by Mark Parnall (South Australian Greens) who has a lot going on there about just this issue. The last time I looked at Animals Australia's savebabe website, it was promoting getting pigs out of sow stalls and farrowing crates, and the disgraceful "consultation process" undertaken for the review of the "Model Code of Practice" - not vegetarianism. Vegetarianism may be - in fact most likely is - encouraged as a goal by animal advocacy groups, but I don't see any attempts at brainwashing an innocent, uninformed public. The only farmers who should feel threatened by them are those with something to hide, because like me, it is the cruelty they are fighting against.

I think this woman feels that she is making the best contribution she can, and she does it very well indeed.

Cheers
Nicky