Nicky,Everyone Hi

Nicky, Was refering to your post on the 27th and relying on the fact I know Suzzanne Caz.

Nicky Tar, Was he? Was he shafted? - That `is` the$50.00 dollar question.

To my mind he would have gotten the policy from somewhere.?

I spoke to him. He would "hardly committ political suicide" by coming out with what he said on ABC *unless under instructions.*

He [A] believed it- because thats what he was told by the leader or -[B]- understood the publics wishes on the live animal trade to be stopped and really wanted the votes.

*I suspect that it was his "given instructions under PM Rudds leadership."

Kevin Rudd ruled that pre election policy with a iron fist.

Nobody was allowed to do interviews unless first running it by Kevin Rudd.

Bob Brown would be the man to ask. [But later]

The libs will be desperate to discredit ALP and have the `hide` to use this example of lies to the public even if its live exports.

Firstly I would recomded public action standing outside Parliment house etc.

The media are getting bored with all these love and kindness stories.
They are waiting to draw the first blood so lets offer them our sacrifise.
Lets draw it out like does does the millions of Animals on those long journies.

Best to try to get some media attention before raising it in Parliment so its not shaved in the first five minutes.

The ALP and Libs dont agree on much *but have have agreed to keep their heads down eyes and mouths shut on the suffering of millions of Australian Animals in Intenive farming and the unforgivable live animal trade for years.

However the libs will be[ quitley] just as angry as us- But for different reasons.

Thats why McGuaruan was so surprised. [ Its wasnt just a dirty trick on the public- They are a tad annoyed too.

Had the hide to call it dirty politics- Very Funny.

Dickie has suggested we go with the petition.

I agree and let it build up public support first.

"Did Kevin Rudd buy Free Range Ham and Turkey for Christmass? If Not Why Not?"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Good grief.

Nicky – not much is said about pig live exports but these guys do a far bit http://www.hyfarm.com.au/hyfarm_-_-about_hyfarm_001.htm

“FEDERAL Agriculture Minister Peter McGauran has called for a uniform approach to regulating
free-range farming.
Mr McGauran said he would bring state agriculture ministers together to develop a uniform and
enforceable approach to the use of the term in labelling.
The move follows a call from egg and pork free-range farmers for strict requirements on
producers labelling their products free range.”

Yes, they were all guilty of using animal welfare to increase their popularity pre election, but now what?

The free range survey is now available in a printable version on the website http://www.pigout.net.au

I will talk to my local member about setting up petitions but in the meantime it is important for us to get an understanding of what people think free range means. This link will give you an idea of how the ACCC see it. It has enraged a lot of people and received a lot of media attention just of late. http://www.freerangepork.com.au/newslettersept07.htm

“As to me, if I was a pig, I'd say that on a nice sunny day,
free range pigs have it far better, but on freezing cold,
rainy nights, I'd rather be in a straw filled shelter,
then on a free range farm”

If you were a pig on my farm yabby, then you would have the best of both worlds. Why would you think a free range farm would not provide shelter?

“we expect Intensive farming replaced by FREE RANGE for All Animals.”

You might. Personally I could not give a rats.

Why?

Well simple. Asserting the same values of ”quality of life” one presumes for a person be applied to a critter is simply stupid.

I am not a cruel person. I deplore the people who gain some form of gratification from watching or participating in animal suffering.

However, I do not believe that keeping a chook in a battery cage when said chook knows no different would particularly diminish the “quality of life” expectations of the chook.

In fact, having seen the way chooks treat other chooks “free range”, I am sure some chooks positively benefit from being caged instead of pecked to death because of their position in the order ("pecking" order that is).

So when you are prepared to demonstrate your commitment to free-range by subsidizing the difference I would have to pay to support a “free-range only “ industry, I might listen but until then, caged eggs and more economic intensive farming methods are fine with me.

PF, sounds like you have lucky pigs on your farm. The pictures
I've seen in the press here of free range farms, showed little
but small tin humpies that looked pretty prone to flooding.

The shelters I've seen on the few pig farms I've visited, used
liberal amounts of 8ft by 4ft straw bales, as they were based
on grain farms, so straw was available in near unlimited amounts.

The sheer thermal capacity of 4 ft thick straw bales is quite
large. On a cold, rainy, miserable night I'd therefore much
rather be in one of those shelters surrounded by copious amounts
of straw, then in a tin humpy. If you have ever been in a hay
shed, even on a cold day, its not half as cold in there as outside.

Pigs kept in those shelters looked pretty happy to me, I certainly
did not look at it as factory farming.

That’s true Yabby, on cold, rainy, miserable nights those housed pigs would be nice and warm. Most free range farmers adjust bedding to suit seasonal conditions and not waste resources on what just looks good.

That thermal capacity that you mentioned, just how hot do you think those housed pigs would be right about now? Bet they would give anything to be outside in the shade of a tree.

And lets not forget that that thermal capacity will only increase as manure and urine is added and starts to compost. Those shed are only cleaned out at the end of each batch (maybe) Image the heat that would be generated! Like you say, toasty in the dead of winter.

We switch to shredded paper in the summer time so we don’t roast our pigs alive.

Keeping pigs indoors with no option to go outside, in conditions that just suit the farmer because he has straw ‘available in near unlimited amounts’ sound like factory farming to me. Yes, maybe its better than pens in sheds but no guarantee that the pigs are as happy as you seem to think they are.