Yabby you may well be right but after a life time of activism let me assure you it Carry's no weight.
We will see zero changes as a result of this group, can those who understand the issues see us ever increasing the costs of food supplied so very much?
Pork, imported pork is cheap because farming it in other country's is cheaper.
If we follow some advice given here we could import beef cheaper than use our own.
Now as the thread dissolves into a love in I leave conversation with the group known as pale for ever, content a group other than that one is best served to look after animal welfare.
That group may insult me as they wish, nothing can convince me they in any way have the skills or understanding to represent animals.
The rudeness of the group is pointless but not unlike some groups to focused on only the female side of issues.
Will that do yabby?

Pale – we need as many surveys as we can before march. I don’t think RSPCA will put up a link, this link will help explain why. (one of the farms has RSPCA accreditation)
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/free-range-tag-on-pork-creates-a-real-stink/2007/09/17/1189881434073.html

Dickie - The intensive industry will lose pigs in that sort of heat. Can you imagine, packed in to a tin roof shed, piled on top of one another? And they justify that by saying they will get sunburned if they go outside? Some ‘nice’ pictures of how pigs should be raised http://www.melandapark.com.au/organicalbum.html

Nicky - http://www.abc.net.au/rural/wa/features/wafeatures-pigexports.htm

“Pork, imported pork is cheap because farming it in other country's is cheaper.” Belly, do some research honey. (that was me being all female like) Pig farming in most of the countries we import from is subsidised. I am sure Yabby was most impressed with your post and will give you a pat on the head (or a kick in the ar….)

Dickie

Of Course. Can you provide a email address or email us and thanks.
www.livexports.com
I like your style. Of course the ALP have a case to answer.

Also if you would forward a petition some of the neighbours and others have collected thousands of signatures for to the "Greens" it would be great.
This is for Live Exports and Intensive farming and there are thousands of signatures. Sort of a welcome to PM Rudd

These are from ordinary every day public. It was requested their comments were NOT waved off as coming from any paricular group.

Your just what they requested- Inderpendant.

Suzzanne Caz Andrew will return to full time Animal Welfare.

It would be helpful if he helps establish free range farms and abattoirs locally in QLD first to divert the cruelty.
Please post the link for AA petition and I will put it on OLO as well.

The most urgent at the moment is PF survey.
I have made a suggestion to PF that her experience and knowledge is requiured if she would be sort of a coordinator to get as many suveys out to the public as possible.

We would donate as much as we can so Dickie and Suzzanne can perhaps put it in their local papers and arrange letter box drops.
We are also happy to asist with radio advertsing.

However of course it is PF descion if shes prepaired to take that on.
I just think as far as intensive pig farming is concerned we have an expert posting here and it would be wise to work under her guidence and advise.

What Do you all think?

Yabby I would be very surprised if you came out now in defence of intensive pig farming.

I recall your comments on that some time ago.

Hey Yabbs- How did you know about the broom sticks? Wow I am really impressed.
You havent said Merry Christmass to your favouite girl PF yet either.

Gertrude, once again, I don't see the pig farming story as
black and white as you all do. The smartest pig farmers that
I know have shut their operations down and are doing more
profitable things with their buildings. Let somebody else
lose money. The Americans, Canadians etc are all burning $,
waiting to see who blinks first.

Pf is correct, meat marketing is being very badly done in
Australia. Consumer perceptions will sell a product to
some, its foolish to ignore that. Most lambs produced are
free range for instance, yet you will hardly ever seen written
on the packet. Huge amounts of imported pork are already sold
in Australia, yet if I want to buy Australian pork, I have to
struggle to see it anywhere on the label. It should be in
big coloured writing, easily seen!

As to intensive pig farming, methinks that they have to
get rid of the sow stalls and the concrete bunkers, which we
know have a disease problem. Progressive pig farmers have moved
on from those long ago, to straw filled shelters, where IMHO
the pigs are pretty happy, judging by what I have seen.
I do not claim to be a pig expert btw.

As to me, if I was a pig, I'd say that on a nice sunny day,
free range pigs have it far better, but on freezing cold,
rainy nights, I'd rather be in a straw filled shelter,
then on a free range farm. As I mentioned, I don't see
it as black and white as the rest of you.

What we can see from the chook industry is that around 20%
of the population will will buy free range, the other 80%
of consumers really don't care and will buy what is convenient,
or cheap or looks nice or whatever. If Australian piggeries
are shut down, people will simply eat more imports.

Gert
Thanks.

Dickie- Sorry to cross post. Must wait twelve hours! to repond on other Thread.

Your question- What Do we do now re the Pig One.

suggest we wait for PF to advise.

I agree the Rudd thing needs pronto attention.

There are several areas regarding politics I would like to discuss with you.
The PCJC[ Federal] May have some rules or guidelines on pre election promises.

Could explore Enquiry into the ABC LandLine Pre Election ALP pitch.

Can investigate whether or not Obrien was aware and "what conversations" and meetings took place "with Rudd Before hand".

Make them very uncomfortable.

Disclose a Government completely out of control 'even before' elections. Dishonest.= both.

The main Aim of this petition -to "draw attention" to Rudds broken promises and trick media pitches misleading the public.

Here are a few words from our Lawyer who luckily just dropped by.

[Suggestion and Example Only.]

Petition to Stop Live Animal Exports.

To The Honourable the President and Members of the Senate in Parliament assembled:

In reliance of the Prime Ministers pre-election promises we the undersigned hereby petition the Prime Minister to Ban Live Exports in accordance with ALPs then stated policy.

The Petition of the undersigned protests in the strongest possible terms against the live-export of Australian animals and the ALP broken pre election promises.

The Prime Minister is aware that the ALP re policy promises aired on Land Line ABC regarding the cruel live export trade have been broken by his Government within weeks of the 2007 elections.

During transportation the animals are subjected to inhumane conditions resulting in unacceptably high death rates and suffering. Upon arrival, they suffer extreme cruelty and barbarism prior to and during slaughter - practices that are illegal in Australia.

Your petitioners call upon the Prime Minister members and the Senate to immediately, and without delay, ban the live export of Australian livestock there by honouring the pre election policy promises made by The Prime Ministers chosen represnative and the ALP.

We petition the Prime Minister to honour ALPs re elections policy without delay.

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=petitions+starting+.+&btnG=Google+Search&meta=cr%3DcountryAU

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=get+up+&btnG=Google+Search&meta=cr%3DcountryAU

Hi all
PF - thanks for that link. I couldn't find a date, but I do know that the two ships named feature at www.liveexportshame.com as amongst the very worst of the livestock carriers. The "Farid F" (not Farina) is well over 30 years old and falling to bits, and the "Hereford Express" was the "Dealco I". Have a look at the Animals Angels reports for that one at that website, it's a shocker, and more about what goes on at unloading in the Philippines; there was a video there of cattle being unloaded and slaughtered. The "Farid F" was recently re-named "Torrens".
I wonder how many of the pigs survived the journey. Have you any idea at all how often these exports happen? And any more details about long-haul transports within Australia?
PALE - I don't know where Suzanne Cass is but I think she has something to do with www.liveexportshame.com, and is possibly in Tasmania. There may be a group down there through which a contact could be made.
Yabby - you are nothing if not predictable; we are lucky to have you to uphold the fascist perspective.
Animals Australia may be interested in the link too.
With regard to the proper wording of petitions, I don't think that would be accepted, because the parameters are very specific. It could be that there is a guide somewhere at the Parliamentary website. If not, (and I suspect, but don't know for sure) that you have to petition the Senate not the House of Representatives. With the latter, if you are friendly with an elected member, you can see if they will ask a series of questions in the House, and then everything is a matter of public record on Hansard. Robert McClelland (new Attorney General) did so earlier in the year.
Good luck trying to get information out of Kevin Rudd. Kerry O'Brien probably would not break "party ranks" to debate the live export topic now, even though he was shafted.
Tony Burke has so far ignored all correspondence on the issue.
Nicky