Thank for the explanation AC. So you see the conflict as part of the battle between democracy and autocracy? What of Hamas being democratically elected then? I wish there was less ideological rationalising and more seeing people as people. Hamas's reasoning seems on a par with violence endorsing extremists, only more depraved.

Israel has every right to eliminate Hamas. That the authorities in Australia have not done a thing against the many antisemitic and violent protests since October 7 is a shame to this nation. Albanese is easily the worst and most revolting prime minister Australia has had, and he hasn't even gone half the term.

Yuyutsu;
My knowledge of this particular history seems to be different
to yours.
Muhomhhad died in 632 and his power transferred to Abu Bakr but not
as the prophet but Caliph. The prominent general Khalid went around
Arabia consildating their hold.
Khalid was sent to conquer Iraq in 633 only one uear after Muhomahhad's death.
He was sucessful and went on to repeat the exercise in Persia.
All these conquests were made with the still standard options;
Affirm the Islamic belief, or pay the Jizja tax or die.
Syria was next in line and they overcame thecountry.
The general at this time was Uma.
In 637 they turned their attention to Jerusalem.
One story says an offer was made to the city of peace provided they
the Christians paid the Jizjaz tax and no Jew would live in the city.
Another report says that much destruction occurred and many killed.
How does all that match with your knowledge ?

Dear Bezza,

What you quote is from the Hadith, considered to be the "oral teaching" of Islam that was not included in the Koran.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith

It is a bunch of fantasy tales, written much later after the fact in order to forge a link between the Koran and the original Muhammad, a link that never was. The simplest refutation of the Hadith is the finding of coins with "Muhammad" on one side and a cross on the other, something no Muslim today could tolerate.

I wish I could refer you to the talks of Prof. Yigal Bin Nun, who explains it all with lots of solid evidence, especially this fascinating one, titled "The Historical Muhammad":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wYb4aWfU4c
However, all his talks are in Hebrew. Soon, I suppose, you should have access to software that can translate youtube clips on the fly...

A United States Foreign Affairs article published
25th October 2023, tells us that:

"The argument that the entire population of Gaza
can be held responsible for Hamas's actions is
quickly discredited when one looks at the facts."

"A research network where the US serves as
co-principal investigators, conducted a survey in
Gaza and the West Bank days before the Israel-Hamas
war broke out."

"The findings revealed that rather than supporting
Hamas, the vast majority of Gazans have been frustrated
with the armed groups' ineffective governance as they
endure extreme economic hardship."

"Most Gazans do not align themselves with Hamas's
ideology either. Unlike Hamas, whose goal is to
destroy the Israeli state, the majority of survey
respondents favoured a two-state solution with an
independent Palestine and Israel existing side by side."

"Continued bombardment and violence and killings of
innocent people, men, women, and children, will NOT
bring the future most Gazans hope for any closer."

" Instead of stamping our sympathy for terrorism,
past Israeli crackdowns that make life more
difficult for ordinary Gazans have increased support
for Hamas. If the current military campaign of
Netanyahu and his government in Gaza has a similar
effect on Palestinian public opinion, it will
further set back the cause of long-term peace."

Yuyutsu, thanks. I did read one article that suggested that Muhumhad
did not exist, and the Koran written by those making a new religion.
In the end however it does not matter whether their prophate was real
or not they behave as though he was real.

The question becomes should we import people who believe he is real
and go to war to enforce that belief ?

What could possibly go wrong ?

The following link is worth a read:

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/why-netanyahu-must-go#:

This article comes from - Ami Ayalon - former Commander of
the Israeli navy and former Director of the Israeli Security
Agency. From Gilead Sher - former Chief of Staff to Israeli
PM Ehud Barak. Sher was also a former Senior Israeli peace
negotiator and a Fellow at the Baker Institute for Public
Policy. and Orni Petruschka - a tech entrepreneur in Israel.

Some of their opinions are:

"As long as Netanyahu remains as PM US President Joe Biden
must make sure Netanyahu understands that the US has not
issued him a blank check to wo whatever he wishes in Gaza."

"Biden should stress that the US views a two-state peace
process as an imperative, a vision Biden has hinted at
already."

We're told that - "The Palestinians have felt abandoned by
the recent Israeli attacks and this feeling must be corrected.
Any similar deals that US and Israeli leaders pursue must
squarely address the problems Palestinians face, incorporating
building, continuous and bookmarked processes for Israeli
disengagement from the West Bank and for rehabilitation of
Gaza."

"Providing the Palestinians a horizon - a concrete timeline
for the establishment of a state of their own in which they
can exercise their national aspirations, practice self-
determination, and live free of occupation will send a
positive message not only to the Palestinians but to the
international community and to Israel's Arab neighbours."

"But as long as Israel now pursues a different and complicated
military campaign, we Israelis must start telling ourselves
a different message: that the enemy is Hams, NOT the
Palestinian people. That will require a new, reasonable
government in Israel."

Why Netanyahu Must Go?

After the war Israel will need a two-state solution.
He cannot deliver.