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The Forum > General Discussion > Is not Allowing Ukraine to join NATO the right decision?

Is not Allowing Ukraine to join NATO the right decision?

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"For me, it is a good day when the evil Russian army is further degraded and less capable of continuing to murder and maime."

Ukraine murders its own people.

Whilst Zelensky and Ukraine are the wests proxy
(The Ukrainian government kept in place by the US money printer)
- Then the whole of Ukraine are also the Wests cannon fodder.

The west did war game simulations, they knew the counter-offensive was likely to fail.
But they continued it anyway.
- Because they're hell bent on doing Russia harm, and have been long before Putin invaded Ukraine.

What sort of idiot sends thousands of poorly trained men into a well established defensive lines without any air cover.
The US and NATO wouldn't do it with their own troops.

The West said, do not proceed with those peace agreements
We will support you for as long as it takes with the might of western military
- And Zelensky bought into it.

You all do realise that Zelensky won the presidential election after campaigning on a platform of peace with the Russians, but after elected he just disregarded those committments he made to the Ukrainian people who elected him.

- But we all bang on about democracy being so great -
When NONE of the elected leaders the whole world over ever keep their election promises or are held accountable for their actions.
They get elected, and then do whatever they want until the next election comes around, then they go brown-nosing again.

SAD BUT TRUE.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 25 August 2023 10:20:07 AM
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SAD BUT TRUE?

Putin is destroying his country and people and Russia's
future is sad. Very sad indeed.

Hundreds of thousands of young Russian men, some with
their families have fled Russia to avoid conscription.
Many drove their own cars, a few bicycled, and many paid
exorbitant prices to fly out, many to Turkey.

Thousands of scientists and other intellectuals along with
hundreds of ballet dancers and other artists have left or
tried to leave Russia ashamed and frightened of Putin's
wars and unhappy with his severe repression.

Some Russian scientists worry that there is no future
for science in Russia. A large percentage of Russia's
tech force is gone.
Then we can look at the Arts. Where is the cultural milieu
that gave humanity the symphonies and operas of Mussorgsky,
Tchaikovsky, Korsakov?

Where is the creativity that spawned "Swan-Lake"
"Boris Godunov"? We should all cry for the culture that
spawned them but is no more.

It goes without saying that a country's artistic
achievements don't compensate for its criminal brutalities
past or present - but in Russia today one may well ask
what is there to live for?

Russia is being destroyed by Putin. And that is
SAD BUT TRUE!
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 25 August 2023 11:23:24 AM
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Dear Foxy,

The great works of Russian art, music and literature still exist even though it is difficult to be creative in current Russia. Many of those great works were created under a repressive czarism, a repressive Leninism and a repressive Stalinism. Somehow, the creative spirit survives adversity. Adversity can even be a goad to creativity.

Putin will not live forever. Many of those in exile from Russia are creative spirits imbued with Russian culture. Putin can do great damage while he lives, but, eventually, he is merely a blip on history.
Posted by david f, Friday, 25 August 2023 4:07:32 PM
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Dear David,

Thank you for your positivity. I was raised on
Russian culture, literature, and music.
I spoke Russian in my youth.

Hopefully Putin will not live for much longer.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 25 August 2023 4:44:30 PM
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David,

While no one is perfectly evil or perfectly good, the judgment is on the outcomes that they are fighting for. Young mobilised Russians are not inherently evil, but in fighting for the Russian invasion they are enabling the monsters that torture and kill civilians.

The slaughter of these youngsters will motivate the Russian mothers to stop the war. The responsibility lies with Putin who cares nothing for the slaughter of his citizens.
Posted by shadowminister, Friday, 25 August 2023 4:49:00 PM
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Dear shadowminister,

I agree. We enable monsters. Some of those who fought for Hitler were afraid of what would happen to their families if they didn't participate. Some of those fighting for Putin probably feel the same. In the Vietnamese war the US carried on, you were more likely to go if you were black or couldn't get deferred. One lone man does not do it alone. Putin has many supporters while those who oppose him are subject to the power of the Russian state.

Perhaps, it is as Yeats wrote: 'The best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity.'
Posted by david f, Friday, 25 August 2023 5:12:21 PM
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