Israel - created by terrorism : Comments

By Anne Alexander and John Rose, published 30/5/2008

The state of Israel was founded 60 years ago out of a monstrous crime - the expulsion of nearly a million Palestinians from their homes.

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"Stupid people, especially fundamentalist christians, support them in their beliefs and defend them on the basis of their self serving book. These same Fundi christians overlook the 'Sermon on the Mount' and how Christianity is compassionate, simple and giving and so is fundamentally different from their book and their beliefs. These same fundi's exhibit an unnatural hate for Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims."

From the Sermon on the Mount:

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus apparently did not consider the Jewish Bible a self serving book since he in the above passage recommended observing its law and quoted from it copiously.

You are perpetuating an ugly stereotype. "Christianity is compassionate, simple and giving and so is fundamentally different from their book and their beliefs." That is the kind of garbage that has inspired years of Christian persecution of Jews culminating in that ultimate expression of applied Christianity, the Holocaust.

I suggest three books to you.

"Constantine's Sword" by John Carroll who was a Catholic priest. That tells of the militarism, intolerance and Jew hatred of Christianity since Constantine.

"The Closing of the Western Mind" by Charles Freeman. This tells how the adoption of Christianity by the Roman Empire brought in the Dark Ages as the faith demanded by Christianity destroyed the spirit of inquiry and questioning in the classical world.

"The Conversion of Europe from Paganism to Christianity: 371-1386" by Richard Fletcher. 371 was the date that the Roman Empire adopted Christianity as a state religion. With the exception of Ireland the rest of Europe was converted by violence.

As I pointed out to you before. "Love thy neighbour as thyself" comes from Leviticus, the Jewish Bible. Almost everything that Jesus said that was good comes from his Jewish background. Nonsense such as the virgin birth comes from pagan mythology current at the time. Neurotic guilt from original sin comes from an interpretation of Genesis through the Platonic Fall of man.

Posted by david f, Sunday, 1 June 2008 10:24:12 AM

Posted by one under god, Sunday, 1 June 2008 11:50:39 AM

keith wrote:

"These people have a philosophy that is rooted in a book thousands of years old. These people have never revised nor added to this book.
These people cannot assess the modern concept of human rights or apply this concept to others because this book doesn't take into account modern history or ... development.

Just in case you, in error, assume I am talking like a Muslim hater, I'm refering to The First Testament Bible."

You are not a Muslim hater, but you sound like a Jew hater. Besides you are inaccurate. One continual Jewish activity is explaining the Jewish Bible and making it relevant. The Talmud, commentaries and codes, midrashim, responsa, the Guide for the Perplexed, the Kabbalah and the Zohar are some of the many works that Jews have written to add to or explain the Jewish Bible. The Jews are people of the book to a greater extent than any other people. The Responsa are living works currently being added to.

The Talmud discusses the meanings of Bible passages. Unlike Christian Councils which declare some views acceptable and others heresies the complete arguments are recorded. Even if one view is accepted those of the minority opinion are not declared heretics as was the case with Pelagius who argued against Original Sin, was declared a heretic and exiled.

The midrashim express humanity. One example is the midrash concerning the waters of the Red Sea closing over the Egyptians pursuing the Jews.

The angels cheered the destruction. The Lord wept because they were also his children.

Since there is no figure like a pope or any sort of a hierarchy different branches of Judaism are free to revise practices. Some branches of Judaism have female rabbis. Some rabbis officiate at same sex marriages. There is even an ongoing discussion concerning the kosher laws. Some rabbis wanted to revise the laws so as to declare animals raised in deplorable conditions such as battery hens non-kosher.

"The Sacred Books of the Jews" by Harry Gersh published in 1968 by Stein & Day surveys this immense body of literature.

Posted by david f, Sunday, 1 June 2008 2:42:05 PM

Dear Keith.... you said:

<<These people cannot assess the modern concept of human rights or apply this concept to others because this book doesn't take into account modern history or ... development.>>

Actually, it's not so much 'the book' which prevents them from adhering to human rights.. those rights were defined IN that book.. they are very simple.. and include doing for others as we would have them do for us..

and 3 classes of persons attracted repeated mention in the OT..
-"The widow"
-"The Orphan"
-"The Alien"

All were to be cared for.

BUT... God help any "alien" who tried to take over the Israeli state...now'that' is a different issue alllltogether.

I appreciate your modern outlook, but that outlook fails to consider just how deep in history and culture the salvation history of Gods dealing with Israel is.

You don't 'get' it.. because your faith appears to be in 'human' systems.. UN etc.. well they are the new kid on the block mate.. with all due respect.. the Jews and Arabs have been around in an identifiable form for millenia. Why would they even think of listening to the UN which is a historical 'child' compared to them?

Qaint ideas of 'human rights' simply don't apply to areas of tribal competitiveness.. the sooner we realized this.. the sooner we will stop wasting a heck of a lot of money and time.

Posted by BOAZ_David, Sunday, 1 June 2008 3:31:06 PM

david f

So you don't like what you read so you bring out the old furphy of anti-semitism. You goose nobody is listening to you and your spite and hatred anymore.

And I'm used to such stupid condemnatiobns from those who never ever cast a stone. Ha what a joke you and your fellow propagandists are.

Anti semitism allegations no longer work. The world now treats such allegations with the greatest disdain and contempt. They have been over-used and have been debased. And I'd bet you in your gross blindness and stupidity can't work out another simple reason why reasoning people now totally reject them.

Hahahaha Explaining is not adding to nor revising it is merely a akin to a blind man explaining why his view of the world is the only correct view.

I can understand why you are critical of christianity. Your book doesn't include Christ and his teachings. In fact those beliefs totally challenge your teachings and your book.

The Sermon on the Mount is the essence of christianity and your book contradicts most of that teaching with your simple 'an eye for an eye' type mantras. You cannot 'turn the other cheek'. And those mantra's are your ruinous contradiction. That contradiction explains your self-destructive journeys through this world.

No amount of weasal word explanations can change those facts.

You are simply just another loather of peace.

By the way where is your reformation? You cannot argue accuracy while you ignore the simple facts and events of Western history.

Now simply and clearly state you reject the notion of 'an eye for an eye' and clearly state you believe you should 'turn the other cheek'.

No weasel word explanations are needed.

Why haven't you denied you are a supporter of the vitrol against Arabs, Muslims and Palestinians?

Posted by keith, Sunday, 1 June 2008 3:58:44 PM

Keith,

Once again you make sweeping statements about a nation of 7,300,000, and you are just plain wrong.

Davidf has shown that your arguments regarding the jewish faith are false, and are in fact, anti-semitic. Furthermore only 17% of Jews consider themselves orthodox. The secular tradition in Israel is similar in popularity to that in the west.

You say >>” These people can only operate in line with their books beliefs”

Besides being flat out wrong, this is also offensive y. It is the position of an anti-semite, and an uneducated one at that. You might do well to read a book once in a while

You say >>” None of them can recant these stupidities on any level.”

See Meretz-Yachad party who had 12 seats in Israels Parliament and who’s principles directly contradict your assertions. There are many other organizations in Israel which completely defy your simplistic judgements.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meretz-Yachad

No one is taking your rants seriously becasue every time we knock one of your arguments down you just change the subject.

Marilyn,

I see you have now moved on to Holocaust denial. Well you’ll have plenty of interesting company. The Iranians hold conferences on the issue, and many Muslim children are taught this despicable bastardisation of the truth. You clearly hate the Jews with a passion, yet you are unprepared to admit your bigotry. There is a vast amount of study which has been undertaken on the issue of the Holocaust, proving beyond doubt the validity of the claims. Or is all that a Jewish conspiracy?

Davidf,

Given the level of hatred of Israel among the soft-left and hard-left, I wonder how you believe you can rely upon them to save Israel from mass genocide once the Hamas led single state you are pushing for becomes a reality. Israelis will no doubt feel cold comfort from the fact that they have a piece of paper from the toothless UN to defend them from the head-hacking hordes.

Does it not disturb you that many people who would support your scheme rub their hands together in anticipation of the smashing of Israel.

Posted by Paul.L, Sunday, 1 June 2008 4:21:47 PM

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