Who needs to bust a gut to protect Australia's legal system when we have Meg and Paul to step right in to investigate, charge, try and convict? Let's do away with this ridiculous system full of lawyers and barristers. Sharia law should be implemented straight away. O no, that's what we're fighting terrorists for. Whatever you think is best then Meg and Paul.

The rest of us can relax, sip port, chardonnay, latte and do bleeding heart good deeds.

Australia makes some of the best Chardonnay by the way. Some right wing fascists may want to try it. Once they've cleaned up the country of course. Wonder if anybody who the Meg's and Paul's approve of will be left to tend the vineyards?

ruawake, it’s too late…you’ve-eaten-all-the-fruit-cake…or perhaps something e-l-s-e?

izzo, good points…

Yvonne, I see lots of loonier-left-and-bleeding-heart in your posts, but doubt you’ve much interest in the good-deed-bit…I haven’t convicted anyone, nor has Paul.L…but as you continue to ignore…Dr Haneef has placed himself under suspicion because of a number of repeatedly-andclearly-made-points…re-read the posts for a clue…

Dr Haneef had a choice…his bomb-making-rellies or his ‘new’ Australian brothers and sisters…he made the choice and now he gets to stay with his rellies…good luck to him!

As for vineyards…you won’t see any of your leftist fraternity tending them either…too much like hard work…that’s left to those poor, farmers who the port-or-chardonnay-sipping-‘elite’ like to keep in their place by paying them like peasants so they never really own their land…and therefore can't upset the ‘leftist’ plan.

Again, the real and present danger to our democracy are the loonies who abuse the responsibility and duty-of-care to their fellow countrymen/women…under the guise of all this bonhomie bs…conveniently forgetting the bombs and beheadings, the mutilations, the torture, the abuse of women as a way of life…need I go on? Our standards may indeed be lowering, Yvonne…not because of colour or race…but because of the lack of respect for others…the lack of respect ingrained in some so-called ‘faiths’e.g.,Islamic or political 'bents' like yours…even the moderateIslamics find the fanatical fringe more than they can stomach…what does that tell you? Would you like to see women burnt on a regular basis in Australia when men find another floozie on the side…and then burn her in turn when he's sick of her or she upsets him? Well the Indians have a tendency to do that or at the very least, to ignore the murders when they frequently happen…

Wake up and smell the roses, before they’re all bombed out from under you…

As for the legal system...you're mistaking 'protecting the legal system' with protecting the legal 'critters' that scurry about in it...not all of whom are especially wholesome themselves as events repeatedly have proven...

Yvonne, It all very nice and easy to call me and Meg facists, I’m sure it would suit your sad world view for it to be so. I am not a Fascist, never have been. I don’t belong to any far right political groups. I don’t hate people of any race or colour.

My argument and I think Megs as well, is that our system has worked roughly as it was supposed to. I don’t maintain that Haneef was definitely guilty. I do think his actions were highly suspicious and I am amazed at the number of people who are willing to believe his every word. The number of people who have declared Haneef innocent, based upon his own testimony is scarcely believable.

The legal system worked as it was supposed to. When not enough evidence could be produced, the prosecutors dropped their case.

As for the executive action of Minister Andrew, I approve of his decision as well. As a non-citizen, Haneef had no right to stay in Australia. He was accepting our hospitality. The right to a visa is not an inalienable right.

I think it is reasonable that no-one with links to terrorism should have a visa to come to our country. Just because a court case couldn’t prove Haneef’s guilt beyond all reasonable doubt ,doesn’t mean he should retain his visa. Our visa holders should be beyond reproach. There is no need to take a risk on Dr Haneef. There are plenty of good candidates for visa’s who are turned down merely because of quota restrictions. I don’t see you hopping up and down about these people.

Regarding your hilarious quote about doing away with the solicitors etc I think you have something there, blood sucking parasites they are. I think our legal system needs protection from the massive oversupply of solicitors and barristers coming out of our universities.

It always amazes me the number of western feminists who, safe in their own little world, are loath to criticize Islam as they have western patriarchies. It stinks of hypocrisy.

Meg and Paul, let's get away from the left vs right name calling.

By the way Meg, the lefties want the rich to share their loot with the peasants silly and elitism is a dirty word.

If Dr Haneef was suspected of murdering your entire family he would not have been allowed to be held for such a long time in detention without any charges being laid. He would not have lost his visa until after the court case. That is at issue. Suspects of criminal acts are treated according to our long standing principles. It applies even to people we don't like.

This issue is not about a popularity poll for Dr Haneef. I don't know the man and neither do you. Can you explain to me why your opinion of his character bears more weight than mine? Because of what you read in the papers? Because of what a cornered minister says?

Personally, I trust our courts and our legal system more, no vested interests, they don't care about popularity polls or financial gain. (please note I mention the system as a whole, not litigating lawyers) Ministers want to win the next election. Newspapers will say whatever is going to sell the most.

A working democracy and a politically free justice system does not come about by accident, or because we're nice Western Christian people. In the late 1920's the educated citizens of a nice Western Christian democracy were made frightened enough to hand over all sorts of rights for 'protection'. After all, if you were honest you had nothing to fear right? It would never apply to you.

What is it that you think we should treasure, guard and fight for? It is our political and personal freedom with a Westminster system of government, right?

We are being made so afraid of another to the point that we are OK with modifications of long standing legal and political principles. This leaves us vulnerable to abuse by those we put into positions of power. Like before in Germany, it does not happen overnight, but slowly, steadily

Yvonne...'lefties-want-the-rich-to-share-their-loot-with-the-peasants-silly-and-elitism-is-a-dirty-word' In theory that's so, but take a look at the reality of their own lives...not much sharing going on there, and elitist is just how many of them are living, leaving lawns unmowed doesn't make them environmentalists either, Yvonne...re-read some of the posts on this thread alone...the arrogance of the leftist postings is laughable: the rest of humanity shouldn't have a say it seems...there's only one way to think? ...only facist Germany was barbaric? Leftist 'sharing'in reality for poor, black African countries is enforced population control policies of China (at the very least) or worse...no choice or democracy there...not much humanity happening either.

RE: 'people-we-don't-like', speak for yourself...I don't know, nor dislike Haneef...I simply argue that the leftists, facists or whoever makes up his fan club are kidding themselves that he's hard done by and I ask the question: Did you kick up a fuss when Lindy Chamberlain or Pauline Hanson were incarcerated? The courts found them innocent and I'll bet you weren't fussing about their legal or other rights being compromised.

RE: 'not about a popularity poll for Dr Haneef' 'why your opinion of his character bears more weight than mine?'

You wouldn't know it judging from his fan club's efforts and no-one's suggested that anyones opinion has any more bearing...just that your efforts to 'popularise' him rather than allow the evidence to be examined is more about your political bent than his innocence or guilt.

RE: Courts & legal system - 'no-vested-interests,-they-don't-care-about-popularity-polls-or-financial-gain' No, the legal system is PERFECT and no one in it would sully their hands with financial reward or vested interests...it's just the media and pollies that are grubby little money-makers...off you go to Alice's tea party, yvonne and write to Santa, it's nearly Christmas.

'A-working-democracy-and-a-politically-free-justice-system-does-not-come-about-by-accident'

...true and just look at how both the left-and-right have taken freedom or democracy from people...through stelth and deceit...argue the facts, present the evidence and allow the truth to surface yvonne...Haneef made himself a suspect, noone else. He is free, not rotting in some islamic jail or lying in a ditch, headless.

(tbc...)

(Con't...)

I think we 'should-treasure,-guard-and-fight-for' the democracy and freedom that gives us the right to continue living without undue risk that will happen to him should he return...ditto for the rest of us. I'm not afraid of Haneef while he's dealt with as he was, it's if he's allowed to flout the law because he's Islamic, white, black, leftist, facist...or anything else that creates problems with our freedom, etc. He made poor choices regarding his 'terrorist' associations, he gave up his right-to-remain-and-freely-associate until it was confirmed he wasn't a threat to others...just as a murder suspect or any other suspect does.

...incidentally, I wish you luck with the 'politically free justice system', it certainly doesn't exist here. Let's examine who appoints the heirachy of legal system...hmmmm.

Interesting that you only ever quote Germany, now a democracy...not China, still a living hell for most of its population with NO FREEDOM for many who still risk being incarcerated and their body parts sold for transplant because of their beliefs or politics. But you're not a leftist, are you? Not one eyed?