Fellow Human, I've made that same point to Boaz-David before. That if he was a Muslim and sprouting what he does, giving some of the web sites he does, he would be in dire straights with the Anti-Terrorism Act. Lucky he is just a 'devout' Christian.

He probably sees himself as a Christian missionary with zeal. David slaying Goliath. Sales people with his methods would have the Fair Trade Practices Act thrown at them. 2nd hand car sales men could learn a thing or two!

The Quran.....WORD of Allah or... 'Words of Mohammad' ?

If the Quran is the WORD of ALLAH then, one is curious why Allah cannot make up his mind about Christians and Jews... one minute he is at war with them (because of their core beliefs) and the next minute they are 'close but no cigar'.

Your response(FH and YVONNE) reveals some important issues.

1/ 'Which' part of the Quran which I have already quoted should predominate in terms of the 'correct' Muslim attitude to Christians and Jews. According to many Muslim authorities, Muslims must 'Love what Allah loves and HATE what Allah hates. True or false?

2/ Blindness is selective. Yvonne seems to simply 'not get' the actual meaning of 9:30.. Yvonne.. do you?
F.H. is cheerfully selecting a more 'Christian/Jew friendly' verse, and claiming this is what establishes 'minority rights' in the Islamic state.

But if the Quran is the WORD of Allah, then Allah is either confused or changes his mind. Further, if it is his WORD then how can it be wrong ? How can his 'Allah is at war with them' and 'MAY ALLAH DESTROY THEM' have any other interpretation than that he wishes Christians and Jews destroyed due to their core belief regarding the Son of God ? (which is a threat to Mohammad's own claim and political aspirations)

F.H. you mention that this verse was about a time of Battle.

I've CLEARLY pointed out that the verse does NOT condemn Christians or Jews for breaking any treaty, but for their CORE BELIEFS .. and so I have to suggest, that my understanding of this verse is more correct than yours.
Believing that Christ is the Son of God has NOTHING to do with the battle.

Syed Maududi on Surah 9
"The series of events that have been discussed in this Surah took place after the Peace Treaty of Hudaibiyah."

In the next breath he refers to the 'Conquest of Arabia' hmmmmmm peaceful Islam?

Yvonne, please view this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP4CvfnbQaw
I speak Indonesian, the captions are spot on.

F.H. perhaps you can clarify something for me.

1/ Is the Qur'an the Word of Allah ? as in..Allah dictated the words which Mohammad recorded ?

2/ If so, then how else can we understand "May Allah destroy them" than that it means what it says.

3/ If you agree that those words are NOT the Word(s) of Allah, then what does that say about the Qur'an ? and Islam ? What would a Sheikh say about your status as a Muslim in such a case?

For you and Yvonne, consider this.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/kampf.htm
Throughout Mein Kampf, Hitler refers to Jews as parasites, liars, dirty, crafty, sly, wily, clever, without any true culture, a sponger, a middleman, a maggot, eternal blood suckers, repulsive, unscrupulous, monsters, foreign, menace, bloodthirsty, avaricious, the destroyer of Aryan humanity, and the mortal enemy of Aryan humanity...

Qur'an says Christians and Jews are: (9:30)

-Allah (Himself) fighteth against them, How perverse are they! (Pikthal)
-Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! (Yusuf Ali)
-may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away! (Shakir)

If this was an isolated incident, with reference to specific behavior by Christians and Jews, a milder understanding is permissable. But it is
a) Not isolated. (Mohammed also curses Christians and Jews on his deathbed REPEATEDLY)
b) Relates to BELIEF not action.

Now.. you say I'm spreading hate? On the contrary, I am POINTING OUT THE SOURCE of ANTI SEMITIC hate which is residing in the religion of Islam against the majority of Australians.

Just like someone in Germany should have pointed out the hate which is in Mein Kampf BEFORE Hitler had the power to obliterate 6,000,000 Jews.

Mohammad DID commit genocide against Jews.(Banu Qurayza)

I've shown video's of how 'Qur'an believing Muslims' in Indonesia attack Christians. Yet..."I'm spreading hate" ?

I am combating hate, by pointing out its SOURCE.

People have a moral right to hate Nazism AND anything like it.

Boaz,

Hitler, 12 April 1922 speech:
“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: By defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." "My feelings as a Christian point me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognised these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter.”

Please read his whole speech on the German Gov archives website and note how he copied references from the Bible such as "their sword will become our plow" (Micah 4:3) and the ‘tears of war’ copied from (Joel 3:9-10)

Even though you are marketing your faith as loving, peaceful and tolerant, someone found justification to murder 6 million innocent jews using Biblical references.

A decade ago in Rwanda, 96% population murdered 800,000 non-Christian infidels! How did that happen?

My point is simple: it’s not the scripture, its how you contextualise and teach it. If you followed the same approach with the Bible you might win the world’s shortest book.

How do you explain that Christians and Jews lived amongst Muslims for the last 14 centuries, their faith, places of worship intact while the Muslims and Jews were slaughtered (and burnt alive) under tolerant Christianity? Something is not adding up Boaz.

F.H. I disagree with your point "It's not the scripture, but how you contextualise it".....

I prefer to say "It's about correct and incorrect interpretation"

When Hitler used the cleansing of the temple to justify his racial prejudices, he 'wrongly' interpreted the scripture.

1/ He claimed that "our Lord and Saviour chased the evil Jews from the temple"
a) Neglecting Jesus WAS a Jew.
b) His cleansing of the temple had NOTHING to do with their race, but everything to do with their actions as people.
c) Jesus never taught that the ill treatment of people based on their race was acceptable.
d) He seems to think Jesus was an Aryan.

When we have a verse like Surah 9:30 it is abundantly clear (probably even to a child) that the verse attacks Christians and Jews because of their 'BELIEF'. So, given that this Surah was 'sent down' from Allah (unless you have a heretical view of the Quran) we have in this verse the very mind of Allah, according to Islam.

How in the world can you talk about 'contextualising' the 'mind of Allah'?

As I said in another post. "Your" Islam is not that of many others.
Lets use a local example, the Imam of the preston Mosque. How does he regard the Quran ?

Geraline Doog

The ..... Holy Qu'ran (is) considered by Muslims to be the literal word of God and not open to interpretation ?

Sheikh Fehmi Iman

Islam is the clear clean page which doesn't change. It didn't change in the past, is not changing now, it will not change in the future.
http://www.abc.net.au/compass/s287380.htm

COMMENT
I rest my case old son..... thats from the transcript of the interview.

Fellow_Human, why are people grudgeful? As you state:
"How do you explain that Christians and Jews lived amongst Muslims for the last 14 centuries, their faith, places of worship intact while the Muslims and Jews were slaughtered (and burnt alive) under tolerant Christianity? Something is not adding up Boaz".

Nor is it adding up on the Muslim side either my fellow human.

Can I quote from a news report on the January 2007 release of "A Faith Denied: The Persecution of the Baha'i of Iran", which is a new report by the Iran Human Rights Documentation Center (IHRDC). http://news.bahai.org/story/502

"Practicing members of the Baha'i faith are subjected in the Islamic Republic of Iran to a level of social exclusion and harassment that shocks the conscience," said Tom Parker, Executive Director of the IHRDC. "Community leaders have been murdered and sites of irreplaceable religious significance destroyed.

"Ordinary Baha'is are refused access to education and employment opportunities and cannot openly worship. They have become third class citizens in the country in which their faith was born. It is difficult to imagine a more clear-cut case of religious persecution," said Mr. Parker.

Interesting this. It was also interesting to see in The Sydney Morning Herald recently, the juxtaposition of an article giving a whitewashed view of Islam ("A new faith for Kooris", May 4, 2007), which portrayed Islam as a faith for the oppressed, while on the page opposite there was an article about the minority Samaritan community in Israel and Palestine.

As this article by SMH correspondent Ed O'Loughlin noted: "In Israel, which considers them to be Jews, Samaritan men usually perform their mandatory military service, but West Bank Samaritans prefer to avoid taking sides. In recent years many have been forced to abandon their original homes inside Nablus in the face of growing Muslim harassment".

I would suggest to you Fellow-Human that the peaceful co-existence of Muslims with Christians and Jews is now PAST HISTORY as the list of Muslim-majority countries in which non-Muslims are accorded the same rights as Muslims is pathetically tiny.