To say that it is ignorant to compare 'Islam' as a religion to other cultures/ethinic groups is probably an unfair call, though I'll admit that the assumption that Islam has all the properties of any other culture is missing a few points; the same could be said about asian vs italian intergration.. while there are similarities in barriers to integration for both asians and italians, there are also obvious differences. In saying that, the point that Imran makes is relevant, and still stands.

"Unless Muslims can learn to treat their religion as people of other faiths do - private, separate from state and not all-encompassing in their everyday lives - they will continue to be in the outer.".. not to be rude, but is that really how people of other faiths treat their religion? That muslims should seperate certain beliefs from politics, isn't that in itself a political statement, based on certain beliefs/cultural expectations?

The point, as I read it, is really this; can muslims be a part of, and contribute to, an Australian identity. I think yes, definately, and an important part of that is allowing muslims (as it is with any group/minority) to have a role in the political process, and to shift policy towards positive social/political objectives, that work towards accepting muslims as part of the community and provide an opportunity for muslims to find their place within the Australian identity, in much the same way the Greeks, Italians etc have been able to do also. It's true, Muslims also have a responsibilty, but Imran.K.Lum has already made a note of this

"the same could be said about asian vs italian intergration"
Not quite. You are here referring to ethnicities. You can stop following a religion but not having an ethnicity.

"is that really how people of other faiths treat their religion? That muslims should seperate certain beliefs from politics, isn't that in itself a political statement, based on certain beliefs/cultural expectations?"

Excellent points, totally agree with the issues you raise there.

"allowing muslims (as it is with any group/minority) to have a role in the political process, and to shift policy towards positive social/political objectives, that work towards accepting muslims as part of the community and provide an opportunity for muslims to find their place within the Australian identity"

What you're saying here is kind of scary because it can be so misinterpreted. Should Aussies who happen to be Muslim run for politics? If they like. May their values and policies be informed by their religious beliefs? If they like (and if the people will vote for them). But should Islam be involved in the political process? No, in much the same way as we wouldn't want Catholicism/Pentecostalism/etc. running the show.

Also, do your comments leave room for selective Sharia Law areas to spring up (like in some counties/areas of England and Canada)? Surely this is incompatible with broad Aussie laws/values?

ABC Television interview this evening.

Researcher / author quoted a UK survey that revealed that 30% of British Muslims believe they would be better off with Sharia Law.

This calculates out to 600,000 people who find the democratic society of one of the most highly regarded nations in the history of the world to be undesirable and without intrinsic value.

When will the PC crowd begin to perceive the harsh reality that a significant proportion of the Muslim world detest their core values? But the delusional secular progressives continue to steadfastly defend of the rights of extremist, sexist, genocidal, racist and xenophobic Islamists.

It is bewildering why any reasonable person would want to import more individuals from a group who find the culture and society of the host nation to be odious and pernicious.

Just to test out our ability to convert others to secular progressivism? Just to prove our moral superiority? Just to prove to ourselves how highly evolved we are?

Leigh,

"And so the ignorance continues."

This really is the pot calling the kettle black. I reckon what you know about Islam could fit on the back of a postage stamp. I've read several of your posts now and it's obvious that your knowledge of Islam is superficial at best and is gathered only from the Western Media.

You seem to think that all Muslims are the same. The majority of Muslims in Australia are from Turkey and how do they fit your sterotype? Turkey happens to be a secular nation, a member of NATO and an ally of the United States and Israel. The Turks ( and several other Muslim groups ) generally have not given us any trouble at all when it comes to integration.

I have no problem with people criticising Islam if they know what they are talking about. But you are the one who has shown yourself to be ignorant. Don't bother replying to this post as I won't read any more of your Racist crap.

I think it is fairly obvious that Turkey is not currently a problem to Western democracies. But how does that nullify the lady's argument? I don't think Peppy's point is very relevant.

Perhaps Peppy could correct me -- what is the name of the race/nation in N Iraq bordering Turkey who are systematically slaughtered when ever the Turkish army has the opportunity? Kurds I think.

It might be worth noting that Turkey exterminated 1.2 million Armenians (Christians) after & during WWII nearly equalling Nazi Germany for genocide. I have visited the catacombs they were forced to hide in, it was a particularly interesting tourist spot. If one were to go for a walk through a rural Turkish village one may think they had time travelled back a century or two. Stop for a coffee and find yourself noting that the place is patronised by men only for some strange reason.

Modern Turkey is primarily opportunistic just like many other countries and they have their own issues with Islamists.

Cowboy JOe,

Please.....are you really trying to suggest that modern day Turks are somehow dangerous because of a genocide that occurred close to a hundred years ago. Using that logic no one could trust the Germans, Japanese, Russians, etc, etc today. Or if you want to go back further in history what about the massacres of whole Indian tribes in North America? Western armies have invaded more countries and killed more people in search of Empires in the past than Turkey.

It comes back to this mentality that you have that all Muslims are the same and they are all evil which Leigh has expressed in the past. If Leigh said all Jews or Blacks were the same and couldn't be trusted wouldn't she deserve to be called a Racist? Then why not when she says it about all Muslims?